Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Aside from all the laws, where is this market going? I know the leucistic is going to be big, and I have seen alot more focus on pastels, t positives, and red groups.... Is that what sells, or just what you guys like? if its just what you like, I want to know what you can't produce enough of to meet the demand.
Thanks

I think the bloody albinos will be big for a long time to come. Nothing compares to their color. I also believe that any of the double recessive morphs will stay up there. As I mentioned above with the bloody albino, and other projects like the blood t-pos, or albino leopards. Just my 2 cents.

Anthony-

agree!However so many combos, i think the future is brighter than people think.

IMO anything can sell if its selectively bred right. I have had impulses to buy a lot of things I wasn't even thinking about until I was star struck by beauty at times. You always have to start focusing on the projects that you originally fell in love with, and it should sprout into something more exciting then what you imagined.

IMO this market is going to get more diverse exponentially every year. The last 5 years are a good example- I remember when all I saw was albino boas for $1500- now the market has taken things to a whole new level- long story short the market is not going to go in any one singular direction- it is going to be what the professionals on this forum, and others, like and what they come out having, but then again I am not an expert in any way, just a interested keeper- cheers
Rob

One thing people seem to forget is if someone has a fascination with reptiles, they will always have a fascination with reptiles. They will always want to observe them, learn about them, go to shows, photograph them, keep more of them, breed them and share their knowledge about them. Those who jump ship, burn out or are forced out of the hobby will most likely be back at some level. So you have supply at all levels of reptile involvement.

In terms of the boa market, like Manny, I also believe the future is brighter than people think. The “hang over” of the initial boa rush is clearing up and people are building their collections again. There are now plenty of new up and coming breeders to contribute to the boa market that are working on some great existing and future projects. The boa market is now on the verge of multiple projects with new gene combinations coming to fruition. If you are at all like me you will not be able to stay away.

When I got into boas, ball pythons were blowing up. Then the BP market saturated and people jumped to boas. Then the housing market, which coincided with the rise of the boa and ball python markets crashed and everyone was hurting. An important side note is virtually ALL markets around the world crashed at this time, not just boas and BP’s. New gene combinations in ball pythons have been doing well. When the new BP gene combos are in adequate supply I suspect people will jump to the next hot thing again. As I already said there are a lot of new things coming in the boa world.

One very promising thing I have observed is many people have found ways to insulate themselves from market swings and are now keeping boas (morphs and localities), ball pythons and many are even getting into blood pythons. This diversification should do nothing but help the stability of the boa market and help reduce “fire sales” by individuals who didn’t figure out how to support their collection. Boas are not ball pythons and the market does not move at the same pace as the ball python market –patients is a must with boas. Hopefully more people will begin to realize this as many already have. Then maybe they will grow a pair and stand behind their work, applied knowledge, time, money invested, their boas and themselves.

In many areas the economy is stabilizing or improving. The boa ban will be put to rest soon. In 2013 we will have new government that will not be in grid lock the way they are now which will hopefully kick things in the ass a little, creating more disposable income for investors and removing some pressure from breeders to move inventory out of necessity as opposed to investment potential. Now is the time to hold firm on your projects because to a large extent we have seen the worst and things are about to change for the better.

Finally, I have noticed some people have this sense of impending doom that the worst possible scenario will occur, that there is no other option available and that once a market trend is set into motion things will only get worse. People see market prices drop and all of a sudden assume they have just “blown” their investment. For some reason they tend to forget that they just purchased a boa that can live 20 years and produce multiple litters. It might just take longer to recuperate their investment and/or turn a profit. They see litters produced and assume that the buyers will be successful at breeding the babies on their first attempt. They assume that females will not die during pregnancy and that females that were bred too early will produce consecutive litters. That all litters will have 20-30 babies with no slugs. That those litters will have the desired sex ratio and gene expression ratio. They assume that the offspring are not sold overseas. They forget their market base includes all the possible combinations that can be produced with the existing morphs and by selective breeding. These combinations create many, many options and ultimately, a very large and often underestimated market base.

In terms of any market, what goes up must come down and will go up again. Optimism, sticking with my goals and a little bit of luck has proved to be very productive in my life. I am getting pretty tired of all the negativity. I am going to stick with what has always worked for me and expect the best. In my opinion this is a better approach than the alternative……

Steve Ihrig - sdi

Great Post Steve (SDI) N/P

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

great post. People worry about things way too much. Here's one thing I know for sure, Ive been fascinated by these animals since I can walk and will continue to and this is the case for 90% of collectors. Theres new people taking this hobby to the next level all the time, teenagers today that will be the "big dogs" of the future. So the possibilities because of everything you said are endless. I cant think negatively. Like Donald Trump says "if youre gonna think...THINK BIG!" Positive thinkers attract, and attitude will show up in your boa room. You will have success that with negativity would not have happened. its an unwritten law of the universe. So if we all stick together and do the support things we must (im blue in the face) we will be trimphant on many many levels!

When you wake up in the morning and see this from a 66% het...
it's hard not to!!

Looking forward to the 66% story Tracy ! I'll be reading and
looking for insights from you Tracy !

Thx . . . . . .

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

gorgeous photo! Amazing babies. Im 4 weeks out from my first litter, I cant wait. Oh and thats not a 66% anymore 8).

Sweet! Congratulations!!!
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"Go Big or Go Home" Muscle Morph Constrictors Inc. Long Island, New York

Selective breeding and holding the market value on high end mutations will keep the boa maarket alive and well.
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.Spencer.

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Alex Barreiro
www.BoaRepublic.com

While I am not so optomistic as some people (some morphs are being over-produced or poorly marketed which drives the price down), neither do I see "the bottom dropping out" as I hear people say at the first price adjustments of the season. The reptile "business" is full of investors, hobbyists, and pet owners who have diverse talents and many excell in care and husbandry that have never taken a business course or read an article on marketing strategies in their life. I've seen the "investors" in other markets (ostrich/emu/rhea, hedgehogs, pot-bellied pigs, etc.) get in creating a pyramid scheme type atmosphere wherein you have to get-in and mass produce to get others in before you sell off and get out before the market is saturated. I also saw a bunch of people having to file bankruptcy, or nearly so, when those other markets crashed. A huge problem in those other investment markets such as pot-bellies, was that virtually everyone was good at the sales aspect when they practically sell themselves at the outset when prices rapidly climbed when first introduced. When any novice can just mass produce and dump them by the truck-load at exotic auctions to sell them everything was fine. Once it got to the true market (uninflated breeder/investor market was drying up) nbody had much talent or business sense when it came to one on one sales. At the first hint of having to actually put forth much effort people just started dumping them for whatever they could get to move on to the next pyramid type investment (it went from pot-bellies to ostrich to hedgehogs...). The people with excellent quality pbp's, ostrich, and hedgehogs who diversified and actually bothered to market their product are still in business and doing well even if not "getting rich quick." There is a re-bound effect, wherein as the investors get out and move on to the next fad driving the price down, then the true market will eventually even back out. As mentioned, diversification is a great idea to hedge against unusually deep market adjustments. And, as also stated, selectively breeding for "quality" is always a better idea than just mass producing. I see people with new morphs and combos holding back huge numbers of breeders which means the people who originally buy in at high prices will not likely get a tenth as much from their offspring years later when first bred. Mr. Stone is doing a very good thing if he follows through with his marketing plan on leucys, but I have no doubt others will buy some and try to circumvent the plan to maximize their profits. So, having watched a multitude of markets over the years, I have to say that unless you can get in early on something new, or can produce a new combo early on, then I would not invest alot of money if you depend on making a profit. Surinames and Peruvians and some other locales has always been decent investments as far as no market crashes, largely because there's no "get rich quick" aspect as of yet....but, which would you profit more from in the long term, spending $60,000.00 on a pair of het leucy or the same amount on top of the line Suri' & Peruvian? People are fond of telling peeople to raise what they like, and it's excellent advise, but I also suggest you read up and have an actual "business plan" and "marketing strategies." I think the market will always be there if you don't have unrealistic expectations and you know what you're doing. Too many people jump into investments then panic at the first slight unexpected problem.

Every business acts exactly the same way. Some will have business plans and some will not. Some will keep this as a hobby and some will not. A business plan should take into account all of the variables and add a few more LOL. I bred indian pythons in the early 90's and usually sold them for $275-$400 each. That lasted for a few yrs, but it was difficult to get the buyers to get permits(to sell and ship accross state lines). I moved on. Dabbled for a few yrs and started breeding sharp strain boas in 2006. Bought a het pair for 4500 and sold a few albinos for over 2k each. Saw one for 200 in classifieds yesterday. Even at 200 , a litter of 22 and you get your money back. I knew the risks as well as the reward. Every new boa morph and combo has its peaks and valleys. The aztecs, marrons, VPI, paradigm, bw caramel, kew west........... The original producers will have an opportunity to capitalize on their good fortune and hard work. I really dont see how we reptile breeders will be able to create our own market for boas that arent based upon supply and demand, as well as the human factor. We are all a little crazy, and impulse buys are part of this industry. Some of us really dont budget to well and may decide to sell at a deep discount. A good business plan in this business is just knowing you wont get rich quick, and you may be under water for many yrs before you can make a profit or break even.

I saw that $200 sharp albino, they have a male or female at that price. Thats absolutely insane and the sad thing is I have seen worse sharps for more money in recent times. I do not think this is the new price for sharps, thats just crazy, especially your sharps Dan, these guys must either need money, have sub-par husbandry, or don't know what those are worth.

These days I think the market is flooded with average boas, keeping a high quality stock is what's going to secure our futures in the boa industry. If you watch the market, you will see people putting up average boas for next to nothing and they still wont move, then someone comes out with one of those exceptional boas that you just can't pass up and its gone before I can get to it.

The future is quality in my opinion.
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Alberto Dimatteo
www.InvincibleBoas.com

I agree with you. I dont think 200 is the new price, and I dont have an issue with it. My point is that the market is always self correcting and a really nice sharp still has a good value in the 400-600 range in my opinion. Thanks