Reptile & Amphibian Forums

my savannah threw up after i fed her a crayfish, a gecko and a pinkie. But only vomited up the crawfish and pinkie the next day. and hasnt eaten since. its been 3 1/2 weeks now, she is still pooping every 3 days but not much and even shed. she is about 3 ft long and doent look like she lost to much weight. i have had her since august.

Hi,

It is important to make sure you have the proper care going for your guy/girl.

What is your setup like? If you can't put a picture up- try to explain the general setup. Have you measured your temperatures at all?

Having the proper temps is critical.. especially for the assimilation and proper digestion of food.

Have you tried any crickets? Try to offer some crickets (if you haven't).

Another concern may be a probable infection.. However, it is important to address your husbandry and whether or not it is properly supporting your lizard.

the temps are good i think 110 basking and 80 in cool and 75 at night, its never had any issues before. and its big crickets r way to small i think.

i have a couple of videos on you tube i think im posting one but my youtube ID to look at the 4 i have is bangsbox

i have 2 heating pads a large heating rock covered with alittle dirt and a 75watt "sun light" bulb. also i changed her hide few days ago it out grew old one. im wondering if its possible if the crayfish i feed it cut her stomach and shes waiting for it to heal or maybe made her sick.. i never feed her one before and the next day she threw it up with the pinkie i feed her but she kept the gecko down...i fed it all three withing a 5 min time period.

the temps are good i think 110 basking and 80 in cool and 75 at night, its never had any issues before. and its big crickets r way to small i think.

i have a couple of videos on you tube i think im posting one but my youtube ID to look at the 4 i have is bangsbox

i have 2 heating pads a large heating rock covered with alittle dirt and a 75watt "sun light" bulb. also i changed her hide few days ago it out grew old one. im wondering if its possible if the crayfish i feed it cut her stomach and shes waiting for it to heal or maybe made her sick.. i never feed her one before and the next day she threw it up with the pinkie i feed her but she kept the gecko down...i fed it all three withing a 5 min time period.

Hi,

Pictures would almost be better.. so, the whole cage could be seen. Also, pictures of your lizard now too.

But, if those are the current temps- they are not good enough. Namely, the hotter portion- this should be about 135 or so. You should stay on top of measuring this and should get a temp gun to do it if you do not have one. If you have done this a lot and are familiar with the placement of the light, the size of the enclosure, the wattage being used, etc.. you will find that you may check temps a lot less.

You can do a few things right away to make proper changes. First, you should put the bulb inside of the enclosure, a lot closer to the basking site. There are many ways to mount the bulb inside.. if you need help with this, let me know. This way, you will achieve a desirable basking temp.

The enclosure needs to be larger. Your lizard perhaps has grown since you have had him/her. Nonetheless, the size of the cage is not sufficient. Plans to upgrade it is important.

I am not sure how you would achieve those temps in the cage you have.. it is small.. or at least, from the video, appears that way. Achieving a gradient- with a hot side where it should be and a cool side would be hard in an enclosure that small. Either your basking site would not be hot enough, allowing for the cool portion to be right OR your basking site would be spot on, but the cool portion would not get cool enough.

Also, remove the heating rock and the heat pads- they are not necessary. Bring the heat/light inside, as mentioned, and you shouldn't have any heat issues.

Lastly, I am not sure, by your post if you have tried crickets. Crickets are relatively small, yes, but for a lizard that isn't feeding- may prove helpful. Crickets do serve as a whole food item and Savannah's will eat them readily. In enough quantity, they do supply nutrients and energy. You should offer pinkies regularly and stick with just this. But, for now, without the acceptance of food- try some crickets. These upgrades, if you do them, should help.

In the post above, the top portion was what you wrote.. I left it up there for reference..

i am planning making tank bigger later in the month and i let it walk around the room its in when ever it want i just leave the ramp down. i will try crickets tom. i feed him scrambled eggs and that seems to be its fav. but ever since the incident it closes its eyes after flicking tounge a few time. its new ever done that but does now

you can get a good look at him here

Your lizard looks relatively active from this video.. and had a healthy appetite. However, this isn't a recent video, right? It hasn't fed in 3 1/2 weeks.. I think this is what you wrote?

If properly supported, with the right heat, humidity, hydration and so forth- he/she would be able to digest that crayfish with ease. So, you should focus less on that incident and more on how to support him/her better.

You should try to stick to rodents solely.. crickets would be good now if he/she will accept them.

The issue now is sorting out what is wrong so food is accepted again.

So, my suggestion is to make these changes sooner than you plan too... immediately. If you haven't measured your basking temperature recently.. please do so. Please incorporate the light -inside-, closer to the basking site, you will achieve the desired temp with ease this way.

Remember that your room that you allow him to roam in- is not his cage. This space isn't all to important. The enclosure is- its home. When it roams your room, your exposing it to a low humidity environment..

Dehydration is a main consideration.. and proper humidity is important. All of which is relative to husbandry and your animal will fail without change.

Again, I will emphasize this- changes have to be made so food is accepted again. Let me know how the crickets go. Measure your temps again or get a means to do so.

video is from march 14 and the next time i fed it was when it all went wrong probably march 16th or 17th ( i feed it as soon as it craps which has alway been feed day half later crap next day feed. i think there is a small chance that when i fed it the crayfish at the time some of the bedding stuck to it which was a miricle grow potting soil (only thing i could get dirt wise in feb.) and it had yellow balls of some kind of juice inside them. it could have stuck to the wet crayfish and she ate it. i have changed the bedding to a reg dirt after 2 weeks of it not eatting so this couldnt happen again. but as for heat it has mostly ate eggs pinkies and mice for almost a yr with no prob so i really want to rule out heat issues. it alway layed on heat rock under light and crapped with in day and a half no matter how much it ate. and after that last feeding it just closes eyes when food is put near. i have even had a gecko (another fav food)i give every 2 weeks that it justs leaves alone and is still in the cage, is there a chance that she just waiting to feel better. and she just crapped again today in her water tub (and almost a reg size lookn one)but it hasnt eatn since the 17 of march

Hi, can I ask what you`re using to measure the temps and humidity, also, can you put a couple of pics up of the enclosure and the monitor, plus, what size is the tank? Thanks!

You need to take her/him to a qualified vet.

What you are doing isn't working. So, changes have to be made. No, she is not waiting to feel better. She is not getting better. The bowel movements are good.. the not eating and lethargy is not. There is a lot of room for improvement in your husbandry, so you are not at a dead-end here.. with nothing to do. But, you have to do it too.. and right now, you are negating it with your own reason/thought. You should try to not do this so much.

Something else you need to consider and learn is this: Because your animal APPEARED well (to you), ate well and moved about well, does not MEAN it was well. Very often, animals will be accumulating issues due to improper support- suddenly, the animal takes a turn and doesn't do so well.. You, as the keeper, strive to explain this sudden change by a single event. The reality is- is most often, it is due to an ACCUMULATION of events.

Do you know the exact ingredients in the Miracle Grow you used?
This stuff is no good- especially with the potential for chemical fertilizers.

Again, you should find a qualified vet and bring him/her there. And, immediately.

Just a few observations on your monitor and some of the other posts. As has been stated by others you could use a warmer basking spot and I would ditch the hot rocks (called boat anchors at our house as it is all they are good for.)and heating pads. I am sure temps are playing a part in your problems but here is another interesting observation. I am not one to be picky about what I feed my monitors as they basically will opportunistically scavenge what they can in the wild whether it be bugs or small rodents frogs or whatever. there are very few specialists among monitors although they do exist. That said the gecko you are feeding your monitor appears to be one of those golden geckos in the gecko genus that comes (usually) from vietnam. Assuming that it is not captive bred (as it most likely is not,) there is no telling what kind of intestinal parasites it may have that an african monitor may not be accustomed to dealing with, Who knows what problems that may cause. Given the chemical cocktail that has been dumped on vietnam by our govt. and theirs over time and considering a geckos position in the food chain as a predator there is no telling what problems could possibly ensue from feeding what could potentially be a miniature version of a bald eagle to your monitor.
I am not a parasite freak nor am I some kind of chemical conspiracy nut, but personally I would avoid feeding wild caught geckos from southeast asia (or anywhere else) to my monitors. While it is true that commercial food sources are not parasite free they are a much less risky option and much cheaper than geckoes and crayfish both of which are totally unnecessary to feed a savanah monitor.
I have one that I was given several years ago and it is basically a garbage disposal for whatever anyone else does not eat (usually snakes.) it gets rodents crickets roaches or whatever else, but never wild caught lizards (or frogs or other type prey that it doesn't need.) it does just fine.

I agree totally with what you`ve said!

i just got a digi temp gauge and her basking site was 136F.. i got the geckos from petland for ten bucks..ive only ever fed it 4 in the yr i have had it. and 3 of those were tokay geckos. but as a staple i give 2 eggs one day wait until it craps then a can tuna wait until craps then a mouse or 2.

Hi, V. exanthematicus is known to be a specialist insect eater (in the wild), why are you suggesting feeding a diet consisting exclusively of rodents?
Then you say keep offering pinky mice; these are virtually nutritionless, the skeleton isn`t formed, hardly any protein, practically useless for a high energy animal like a varanid (especially an adult at 3feet long)?
There`s nothing wrong with including a moderate ammount of rodents, but insects should form the main part of the diet.

Quite clearly, from your posts- this one and the one prior. You have not thoroughly read through everything. Especially the posts that include a view of her enclosure, etc. All of which you asked for and all of which was provided.

So, you shouldn't offer input if you do not first read the info put out there.

Second, I mentioned many times that crickets should be offered- if you interpreted that I said rodents should be exclusive- this was not the intent.

Why don't you ask someone more qualified than yourself why a rodent diet has been TRIED and TESTED and works very well.

Again, all of this was within context. We are talking about a non-feeding animal here- would you suggest a large rat to an animal that won't eat? Hmmmm.

What exactly did you bring to the table here? Being as though this animal needs help? How about that for intent.

Hi again, I do agree with much of what you`ve advised, especially re the tank being too small to get a proper heat gradient, however, you clearly stated (Quote) "try to stick to rodents solely", also, "keep offering pinky mice" enquote; I HAVE read the entire thread!!
What I asked for was how the temps etc are being measured, plus the actual size of the enclosure, no size was given by the poster.... Wouldn`t those details help us both to offer some helpful advise? Thanks!

I know what was stated. The re-quote isn't necessary. Your interpretation is what counts- that of the pinkies is out of context- as this animal is not eating at all.

A rodent-based diet is an excellent diet for Savannah monitors.

What gives YOU the basis for suggesting predominantly insects? An article or a book you have read? Perhaps several. Again, you're taking things out of context. What happens out there, you know, the wild- is all within context. Your thought tells you to feed insects, because some person(s) observed this -in the wild-, what does this have to do with you.. Your cage, captivity? If you're going to repeat what has been observed than I suggest you should also repeat the natural environment, the niches, the weather, the soil, the masses of space- can you do this in captivity?

Crickets are readily accepted by Savannah's- as I said, and they will grow well off them- which is why I suggested them. This, however, is beyond the point, and the previous paragraph- for you- is what is of relevance.

Strange, the whole message/s you`ve posted could have been written by FR, that being the case, I would take it very seriously), but I just think you`re trying to sound like him (hmmmmmm)??
I have worked with this species in a large zoo for several years, so I do have personal experience with them. Can I ask how long you`ve kept this and other varanid species, and what you`ve achieved with them?
The question of what type of thermometer/hygrometer is used to measure temps etc is extremely important, because if analogue, they can be very innacurate, in which case, maybe the "real" basking temp is more like 100f, which is way too low (you already mentioned they need to come up significasntly), and I completely agree, which obviously might explain the animal`s behaviour, at least in part!

You know, that makes very little sense. You hear

As we started this thread, it had nothing to do with you, but helping Sarah with her monitor.

the tank is 4ft long 2 feet wide 1 1/2ft high

Hi, thanks for the size details!As has been mentioned by two of us, the tank is far too small, there`s just no way to get a proper temp gradient, or a good depth of substrate for your monitor. I understand you`re getting a larger enclosure, but you really need that asap!
Can you tell me the type of thermometer/hygrometer you`re using
(digital or analogue)? Thanks.
P.S. I`m trying to help you help the animal, which is why you`re here asking for advise, I think!!
Sorry if the other poster has taken my replies as a personal insult, or meaningless questions!??

i use a thermometer on a peice of wood i got at a dollar store.

i let it walk around the room its in when ever it wants usually 2x a day ill see it walkn around my room. i just leave ramp down and when its done it walks back into its cage

Hi again, o.k, I think it sounds like one of the analogue thermometers, the reason I asked is because that type can be innacurate, in which case, you don`t know what the real temps are (they can be out by as much as 10%).
Can you afford to buy a digital hygrometer/thermometer asap? They are quite cheap, I`m living in England just now (from Australia), so I can`t tell you the exact cost, but I believe it`s around $12 to $15?
It`s VERY important to know the temps and humidity, also, a digital thermometer with a probe will tell you what the basking area temp is (that`s a surface temp), NOT the ambient (air) temp, and it needs to be around 120 to 130 or a little higher. Without those high basking temps, the monitor cannot properly digest food, or function efficiently, and it`s immune system may be compromised.

I`ll reply to your comment on the monitor walking around your room in a here: It`s o.k to give them some excercise for a few minutes, but they lose heat very quickly, and even though the room might feel warm to you, it`s quite cold for the monitor. Also, they need quite high humidity; between at least 55% up to 70%, (higher than in your room, I imagine), so again, too long in too low a humidity, means the animal could suffer.

ok i just put a digi temp reader. it the basking spot it is 136F
im in a basement so its a little humid but i just bought a spray bottle. i will check rest of the temps in the setup now. i also bought crickets and they r running all over the. but if she doesnt eat them the tokay gecko in there that hasnt eatn in 2 weeks will.

make that 139 for basking site

Hi, the basking temp is fine, but please do not leave crickets in there overnight, they can, and probably will, chew at the monitor while it`s sleeping! What are the temps on the warm and cool side (ambient), and when you`ve got an accurate humidity reading, can you put the details up? Thanks!

I did not get to finish or write enough yesterday because I was working.

Here is a quote from you:
"There`s nothing wrong with including a moderate ammount of rodents, but insects should form the main part of the diet."

I think this is mis-leading to others.. as you suggested that Savannah's should only be fed a MODERATE amount of rodents.

What gives you the basis for saying this?

Also, we raise everything here on rodents and insects, with rodents being the MAJOR bulk of the diet... even to the extent of rodents being exclusive with our larger monitors (ex: croc monitors).

As for working with monitors- I have not worked at a zoo (as you have).. However, I probably have more hands on experience with monitors then the zoo experience offered to you.. This has more to do with the zoo itself and not you as a keeper.

I was striving to offer good advice to this keeper- as so many things were wrong. However, your post was off base- and this is a common topic- feeding and what to feed. If it wasn't so off-base- I likely would not have replied. This response- which was yours this time- has been rejected many times before.. in the past.. and has been discussed here for years and years and years-look-up the archives. The topic being- the suggestion that rodents should not be the bulk food offered and other such foods should take precedence.. Everything from insects- as you mentioned, and others- fish/shrimp, etc.

You have to consider- which I mentioned when I first replied- this is not the wild, it is captivity. So, ideally, what is most abundant in their wild environment is not necessarily what is best to feed. In captivity, in some ways, we are so confined and do not have as many options. But, in many others ways- we do. We can offer, for example, an unlimited supply of rodents if we so choose.

So, I question your thought. That is- that rodents should only be fed moderately to Savannah's.

Taking an observation from the wild-- it was stated by Daniel Bennet- that baby Savannah's will feed plentifully on crickets.. And adults- millipedes, etc. So, I get it- that is, where you get your information.

This is not false either- as baby Savs do very well fed crickets. We have raised fresh baby Savannahs off crickets (initially) and their growth was swift.

But, he also suggested that mice should be fed too. Not that using him as a reference point is necessary, but for you, this seems to be where abouts you get your info- journals, articles, etc.

You seem to think that because they have been observed eating insects- in the wild- that rodents should only be fed moderately. It is common to think this way. I suppose the same would apply to other animals, people too. That the food most plentiful or the food available is best. This is not true.
We, as people, tend to think this way and form our own thought or opinion because it is what we see or what we think.

You many even go so far to say that they are DESIGNED to handle insects more.. and rodents are too bulky- this again, is another common thought- and an already anticipated response. Perhaps I should refrain from saying it, because now, you won't.

With regard to Sarah- she was feeding, among the things she mentioned- scrambled eggs and canned tuna. This is horrible. So, suggesting she keep it simple, and stick to rodents- is spot on and necessary advise for both her and her monitor. Context. Suggesting crickets is important too.. this is not a feeding animal, and sometimes, the enticement of movement and the smaller prey will encourage feeding.

This all is of no significance, however, if the conditions are not improved.. and the lizard supported.

The argument isn't that crickets, or insects are no good- because they are- it is that your thought says rodents are not. You did not say this.. I know, you said they should be fed moderately. But, if only in "moderation" relative to insects- insects being the bulk portion- as you suggested- then you're suggesting there is something non-beneficial about rodents.

So my bask site is 140 and the cool side is 80. I'm going to take it to a reptile vet Monday. But I'm alittle worried that becuase they were made illegal about 8 yrs ago In NYC that vet may have to either report me or not help me. Do u guys have any thoughts. I am willing to drive to PA where I bought it and find a vet there. But I would like to just go to near by guy that does reptiles.