Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just wrote a post that was 5 paragraphs long and then had to do some work. When I finished and hit submit it timed out and I lost everything. The short and skinny of it was about how rediculous people are when they put down new comers. I hate this more than anything about our community. I always see "You need to read more about your animal" And I can't help, but think to myself. What an idiot, What do you think they're doing. We all come here to learn, but it seems like some people put an unwritten standard out there that you have to know so much before you can ask questions. I think that's rediculous. Another statement I always here is, "I'm so tired of hearing people ask this question" WHY? you don't have to read it and you definitely don't have to respond. I think people that really don't want to give advice shouldn't. I think it's giving the community a bad name in general. Man, not to sound cocky, but that thing was beautiful. I'm so mad it's gone. I related it to the problem in florida, HR669, the Lacey Act, and damaging an already damaged economy. Oh well it's gone now, but I'm sure it'll come back. I just have to get fired up again. I'm sure I'll have plenty of chances. You can't hardly log in with out seeing where somebody is putting somebody else down for something. We all started somewhere. Those who ridicule others are only complacent with their own abilities and strive to go no further. The only satisfaction they can get out of the hobby is to force feed basic knowledge down new hobbiest throats and feel like their better than someone else.

Anyway I hope someone posts something to get me going again, Thanks for Reading..

I dont post here much but I felt the need to really get into this conversation. After reading the post below about Craigslist adds it kind of got me. People get upset because not everyone knows as much about these snakes as we do. Look at where your looking, Craigslist for a ball python and you expect to find alot of knowledge? Craigslist doesnt have knowlege about most advertised sections. Not all pet owners are in this hobby to the extent that we are. If I was a breeder, I wouldnt know half of the stuff that I do, it just pretty commen since. I own a dog but I dont know everything there is to know about dogs. I also own a car but dont know all there is to know about cars. Most people who buy cars take there cars to a shop when a major problem occures. Why should it be any different here. If you dont do it with everything then dont expect everyone else to do it about stuff there not as serious about. I know there will be many peolple to disagree but I didnt come on here to argue but to state my personal opinion.
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Chris Farmer
Explicit Reptiles
www.ExplicitReptiles.com

I agree with both of you 100%
There are some folks on here who only post when they see someone who is obviously new or inexperienced and then they pounce on them and try to belittle them.
I hope it doesn't discourage people from posting because one of the things I like about this forum is there is usually some activity.
The thing that really cracks me up is that the people who are so eager to seem like they know everything are usually the ones who have only been keeping reptiles for a few years. Most people who have been keeping reptiles for many years are eager to share their knowledge.

John

Wow, you hit the nail on the head. I am so tired of the rash of "know it alls" that give any one who asks a question a hard time or an uncalled for response. I remember 8 yrs ago I asked a breeding question to a VERY big breeder that I had bought a $1,750.00 snake from 2 years earlier he said that he didn't know and turned his back on me. Needless to say i would never through another penny his way. A good friend of mine also over heard another big breeder say something very negative about the "garage breeders". It made me think these guys need to remember that without the smaller people they would not exist. I do believe as a community we need to be able to pull together in all aspects not only to fight the good fight.

Yes, not everyone knows as much about snakes as we do....but it doesn't take more than common sense to know you probably shouldn't out a snake from Africa in the same tank as a snake from North America.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

What does that have to do with anything?

The craigslist idiots post. I posted about a few things I saw on there where people were just dumb.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

I don't disagree. What I disagree with is when someone is called out for it. How simple would it be to just give someone the simple answer they ask for. Or even simpler yet, if you dont want to help them in a positive way just ignore the forum and let someone who can promote the hobby in a positive way do it.

I'm still looking for the origional post that fired you up to begin with??? LOL
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........JY

I don't mind people who don't have much experience with snakes coming on to ask questions. But it does irritate/anger me when they explain that they have had their two year old Ball python in a 75 gallon on sand beneath a full spectrum light with no other heating, then they come on here and ask why they stopped eating or won't shed properly.

The issue is not the question. The issue is that this person probably bought the animal without doing ANY research. Almost any caresheet that comes up on Google will give you the basic parameters for setting up a BP. Another 10-15 minutes of searching and you will have a pretty nice cage set-up in mind.

It is the (perceived) lack of any effort on that person's part to learn how to properly care for the animal BEFORE getting one. We often get questions months or even YEARS after the animal was purchased.

We should perhaps offer suggestions of better keeping and maintenance of their pet in more supportive manner. Less accusatory, more encouragement. I admit, though, that I struggle with nice words when I feel like I am writing to an inconsiderate prick (which is most likely an inaccurate impression of the person after only one or two posts).
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.1 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

I can respect that. And I'm not saying your wrong I'm just saying if it's something that angers you try to bite your tongue and if you can't take a breather. Even with how bad it bothered me about people getting verbally mamed on here. After I lost the first message I wrote. A few hours later the second version was a lot calmer. The form won't go anywhere and instead of someone getting angry with what you said they take your advice. This will lead to healthier animals, happier people, and a more positive image of the hobby. Remember it's not always the keepers fault. Ball pythons are sold in every major and privately owned petshop in the country with people working for seven dollars an hour giving care advice on these animals that see no difference between a ball python and a gold fish. If your buying in a pet shop and the sales person tells you something your going to take their word for it. It's not the buyers fault, it's the pet shops. And it would be great if everyone would buy from breeders, but that's not going to happen. Small business has been competing with large business since the beginning of time and it's not going to change. But what could change is a new hobbiest coming to a forum for help. Instead of making them think less of you and your knowledge and giving up. Welcome them them with open arms and the next reptile they buy may be off a breeder. Hey possibly even out of your own collection. See how it relates. And again I wasn't ripping on the craigslist thing that really had very little if anything to do with what I was saying. I think it didn't bother me because no one was being knowingly condemned. It was kinda like talking behind their back. Which in this case was a good thing cause they didn't have to hear about how lousy of a person they were. My concern is with potentially good keepers being turned away for a lack of knowledge and positive attitudes.

we actually have been telling people exactly what they NEED to know since this computer thingy started....loooong time...
usually...people are helped...sometimes....things get off a little.....sometimes alot....and people will still always be lazy and stupid....and it's a good thing...if they were smarter, they wouldn't kill so many animals...and we'd run out of customers....?...correct>>>????...
....tell me I'm wrong....!?

....
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........JY

Your not supposed to say that out loud.

yes ,I know, but I have a habit of not really caring who I ,,,let's say,,, miff....is that a good word...?...

.....think of all this...every bit...from both sides....and it is all summed up by Larry I think it was....said....

you can't fix stupid....?

...
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........JY

The more noobs we get asking the SAME questions over and over and over and over and over again means that the reptile community is growing! and THATS awesome!!!

If, years ago when I was young just getting interested in reptiles, people reacted to me as I see them react on various forums, I would likely never have become a reptile keeper. And it's not just reptiles...I think the non-personal way in which people interact through emails, forums, tweets and twitters has a negative influence on social skills. I've been into exotic animals of various types for decades and I can tell you I've gotten to almost hate dealing with the general public, and there's been a definite shift in attitudes on ownership, responsibility, and "business practices." Mostly in the last ten years or so, seems to me. If someone is honestly ignorant, are you being responsible in ridiculing them or in educating them?

That's right...forget the 2 cents, I want to throw in a little more......

I can see both sides, but only agree with one.......yes, it is absolutely annoying to see the SAME questions every month.......you see it on SO MANY forums......I once was a part of a big breeders forum, and I was kind of the "go to" guy for advice. And I'll tell you, that took SO MUCH time......and I grew to dislike it. I was answering the same questions over and over again. And if I didn't get to their post fast enough, sometimes there were consequences. There were several times where a new person thought there was an eye cap, and there wasn't.....but they got SOMETHING to pop off.....because I didn't answer fast enough. Nothing upset me more than thinking about that poor snake......but I paid my dues.....and helped many......

Which brings me to my next point. I think if you REALLY have some negative comment to say about a person asking a question, you should keep it to yourself. AT LEAST THEY ARE ASKING A QUESTION.......it's the ones that don't are the ones that prefer to remain ignorant, and continue doing damage. WE WERE ALL NEW ONCE......ALL OF US......congrats, maybe you know a little more than most, but to scare off a person in need of your help and advice? Really? If you have the time to log on, post a negative response, then in the same time you could have helped that person......and more importantly......that snake, or any other snake they may own in the future.....

And to those that have a pair of all pythons for 10 years......don't get cocky. I take VPI's definition of experience.....one snake a year is one years experience.....two snakes in one year is two years experience.....why? You can see twice as much.......my partner and I have probably over 700-800 snakes at the moment......we have THOUSANDS of years under our belt.....but we BOTH agree that we can learn more. I am always looking for new tips.....new advice.....new ways of doing things. Every year I do something different......if it helps, I integrate it, if it doesn't, I dismiss it.......a wise man knows that he doesn't know everything. Don't be ignorant. And these people may not know too many of the basics, but why can't we just send them a link to a site that will answer most of their questions? Why can't we have a link at the top of this page that states answers to the top 50 questions? It will save the repeat typing, and help those that may even be too afraid to ask.......or may not even know that that was a question to ask in the first place.......

And yes, pet stores are partly to blame. I think new people should be required to buy a book along with it, or possibly answer a questionnaire to test for the most basic knowledge or cage conditions, feeding, etc.

New people are very important to this business. One wrong transaction, insulting them when they need help, not being there when you can help.......all of these will shy away the people that are more like us than anyone else. To care for a snake is a unique quality......the VERY DEFINITION of compassion. We love something that doesn't love us back. It's not a kitty cat or a puppy dog. We buy one, keep it for a decade, can sell it off, and it will eat the next day. They don't care for us.....and we love them all the same. We look beyond the cute and fuzzy.......it makes us better, that's right, I said better, than those that hate without understanding.......so if you have the time, the energy, be there for those that didn't have the good fortune of becoming educated in the thing that they love......

I told you........5 cents, not 2......and I can keep going. Those that know me best know I'm a talker....

Brandon Boeke
Priceless Pythons

AWESOME Brandon!I read your "2 cents" and It is a releif to know a breeder on your level to be such a humble practitioner,as well as a resource of knowledge to all who seek it.Although I am no one of any influence on these forums I had to take a minute to say I am really impressed with you..

AMEN brother. Thank You

Hey Guys, Im a pretty small and unknown myself in the Ball Python world but I have dealt with Brandon and can not tell you how impressive he is as a mentor and a tremendous help with any questions along with after the sale service. The guys you see banging on the newbies and belittling people on the Forum are the people that obviously do that with everyone in their lives. Gosh how would you like to be one of their kids or a spouse and be exposed to that for years and years on end. It would be pretty stiffling wouldnt it. 97% of the guys and gals on here are a great source of help and a wealth of information but you know its that 3% that people tend to remember. Very unfortunate to say the least. I have been very lucky in life to always have tremendous people to learn from. I am closing out one career after almost 40 years of flying as a Commercial Pilot and starting another one with my second love which is breeding and raising Ball Pythons. If I had had flight instructors in that 3 percentile that I took to heart I may have missed one of the greatest oppertunities in life and that was to do something through out my life that I really loved. I was fortunate enough to have what I would consider one of the best and most patient instructors to have ever been in aviation. Now that I am closing out that chapter in my life and starting a new one here I must say that people like Brandon make it so much better and such a positive learning enviroment. Besides Brandon, I have another great friend and mentor in the world of snakes and without people like him that unselfishly help and spur me on it could get very discouraging being hit by the 3 percenters. Gottta look at it this way guys, sometimes we all have a bad day or have heard the same question one to many time, you know like "when are we going to get there" or "Im hungry" for those of us that have had the privledge of having children but for the most part just sitting back and observing will tell you in short order who the schoolyard bullys are. I have to much to learn from the 97% to let the few discourage me so everyone new and old, keep your chin up and a smile on your face because there are way more people that are going to say "look at those cute dimples" rather than "I want to pop that guy on the chin". If you do have the chance to deal with people like Brandon at Priceless Pythons or my good friend and mentor Josh Hutto learning becomes a MUCH more enjoyable experience. Thanks to EVERYONE on here that I have had and will have the chance to deal with and come to know. Jay
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JEMreptiles@gmail.com from sunny AZ.

Lots of cool Ball Pythons along with
0.0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty and some great Bull snakes.
1.1 Argentinian Black and White Tegus
1.0 Gotti Pitbull (Tank)
2.0 Beautiful Bengals (Stryker and Cynbad)
12 Tarantulas
Last but most Important 2.2 Children