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I am looking for some info on the aztec boa morph. It appears to be a nice looking sonoran boa with a nice tail. Has anyone tried to figure out their origin? Do these stay small? Do they feed well as neonates or are they difficult to get feeding? I just do not see the justification for the prices being asked. Without definite identification of the founder morph locale I suspect it is probably a leopard type submorph. Any comments are welcome. Thanks!

Andrew and Bob Potts would be the best to answer those questions for you. They are the founders of the Aztecs and the "Aztec Nation" which i am a very proud member. They are healthy and strong feeders my friend.

What I do know about the Aztecs is:

There is a co-dominant (Aztec) and dominant (super Aztec) form. In addition two pink/red patternless Aztecs have been produced. These patternless Aztecs appear to be, or could be a third mutation that is different from Aztecs and super Aztecs.

The super Aztecs have been proven as breeders on two occasions, producing viable live litters of all Aztecs in one litter and all Aztecs in a second litter with one additional albino. Aztecs are the only pattern morph where the super form has produced a viable litter. However, super jungles have produced stillborns proving they are not sterile (that is a whole other thread).

The hypo Aztecs (Hytec) typically have little to no reduction in pattern from the hypo gene. This is extremely significant for making bold sunglows with well connected patterns of all strains of albino.

The only case example of breeding the non-Aztec siblings together produces four different expressions of boas – one pastel, one very red, one anerythristic and one “purple anerythristic. This suggests that there is possibly more occurring genetically than just dominant and codominant expression. Side note, some of my non-Aztec babies are clearly “different”.

Based on my experience and information gathered from others, the Aztec is a pattern and color morph, not just a pattern morph.

In terms of supply and demand and how it affects price - Supply is low, especially considering all the combinations that need to be made and the breeders that need to be supplied. There are literally thousands of albinos and other morphs in the collections of hobbyists and breeders around the world to supply.

Full disclosure is I just had my first litter of Aztecs. Weather the price is justified is up the buyer and seller. What I can say is I welcome the buzz and high prices that are associated with the Aztecs. The boa market was crushed a few years back and is currently pretty stagnant. Projects like this and a couple other projects out there are in my opinion exactly what the boa market needs to generate interest, investment potential, new possible outcomes, and power for the use of fighting BS legislation. I think that the more exposure this project gets, the more people will realize how unique this morph is and that some of the boldest and most colorful albinos (from all strains) will have the Aztec gene behind them.

Steve Ihrig - sdi

Thank you all.

To answer the rest of your questions:

According to the Potts brothers who found and propagated this morph, the founding animal was given to them by a retiring teacher. With all due respect, we can suspect/speculate where they originated from all we want. However, without proof of origin they technically can’t be labeled as any origin, weather it be Columbian, Sonoran, Peruvian etc… I don’t see any resemblance to the leopard morph visually or in how the genetics work. Moreover, without getting into a locality morph debate, I would guess most people investing in this morph are not concerned about the origin.

I just had my first litter of Aztecs. In terms of feeding, every baby except two accepted their first meal on the first attempt. The remaining two accepted their first meal on the second attempt the following day. I used only frozen thawed for feeding, not live or fresh killed which is the easier route for success.

My breeder male is a beast. He is about six feet long, square like a mini loaf of bread and solid as a rock. He had no problem breeding my nearly eight foot approximately 30 pound female. She is an import that has the body structure of imported BCC I have seen.

I am a big fan of this morph!

Steve Ihrig - sdi

Marc I hope Steve got you fired up to get involved with the Aztec morph. I hear Steve is a stand up guy from other breeders. I would like to hire him as my marketing rep for my upcoming Hytec het sharp litter. 12 days and counting.
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Paul Rothenbach
Rothenbach@live.com">PRothenbach@live.com

It's the facts. Because of the facts, Aztecs market themselves. You shouldn't need to do any marketing for your hytec het sharp litter other then posting them a couple times. You are going to be the second person in the world to produce Hytec het sharps. That is a powerful litter! What an opportunity!

Steve Ihrig - sdi

Thanks Steve. How about motivational speaker instead? Really I appreciate your excitement.
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Paul Rothenbach
Rothenbach@live.com">PRothenbach@live.com

Steve you have a good point. I was third to produce hypo leopards and had 7 out of 10 in the world so if Im second with hytec het sharps I guess Im progressing. Sure would like to be first once allthough that could be in the oven too. Thanks again.
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Paul Rothenbach
Rothenbach@live.com">PRothenbach@live.com

Paul
I can't wait to see the pics of what that boy produces for you. That's exciting!
Matt Ozsvath
Lizards of Oz
www.lizardsofoz.com

Paul
Meant to say girl.
Matt Ozsvath
Lizards of Oz
www.lizardsofoz.com

Thanks Matt I will be sure to give you a good look at them. I've got Larry the veteran cinemotographer coming over to do the pics for the sacred event. He always makes me feel better with what I have with is overwhelming enthusiasm. Great guy to have 30 miles away.
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Paul Rothenbach
Rothenbach@live.com">PRothenbach@live.com

Lots of enthusiasm , I can't wait, it's gonna be Fun !!

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Everyone needs one. Seriously , get two or three..

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.Spencer.

Here is a quick summary of the Aztec Origins
Aztec Boas are of Colombian decent According to Andrew

Andrew Potts Quote:

"For those who are unfamiliar with how we acquired the Aztec, it was given to us by a high school teacher who had the boa as a classroom pet for the past 11-12 year's and now was retiring. Bob new immediately what he had and the rest is history. What most haven't heard is we actually had that boa circa 1990-1991(had an old film photo to compare) and neither of us remembered having him or who it went too. FYI, just happened to be looking thru some of the thousand's of film photo's we have taken and came across the photo of the Aztec circa 1990-1991 and almost shat my pant's. Back in 1990 we didn't know what we had but go forward a dozen years and we be wise. Now ain't that a hoot. Ok enough of the war stories."

End /Quote

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Here is a picture taken of the original male Aztec with a time frame of 1991 or 1992. We sold him shortly after this photo was taken(neither Bob or I can recall the exact time) and then reacquired him in 2002. All digital pictures of the original male Aztec after we got him back 2002 were lost due to a computer crashing. This picture is a film photo taken 1991-1992 we had put on disk. The original picture was taken with a Cannon A-1 SLR. I've also enclosed some photo's of the Aztecs produced from the original male Aztec taken by a friend. Andrew

Original Aztec Male

Yearling Female Aztec from Original Male

Same Aztec Female as an Adult

Yearling Male Aztec from Original Male

Same Aztec Male as an Adult

More Aztecs from the Original Male

What is interesting to me is that the original male is what I would call a lower expression Aztec, however he produced multiple offspring that are much more extreme in pattern and color which shows that you can "upgrade" in just one generation. The colors are amazing on some of them - a couple are as red/pink as any other morph out there. More things to target in my future bredings! Thanks for all the photos!

Steve Ihrig - sdi

That is encouraging because my gravid female is low expression but it appears the sky is the limit as to what she should produce. Should be like having a jungle litter with a lot of variation in pattern and color. Love the red on some of those off spring.
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Paul Rothenbach
Rothenbach@live.com">PRothenbach@live.com

Paul cant wait for your litter to drop im super excited to pick out my girl!!!! Ryan George

I agree completely, some of the patterns and colors are off the chart. I also agree with you and anyone else who think's it's impossible to know the exact origin of the 1st Aztec. All we can do is use the knowledge and experience hopefully gained from years of hard work plus keen observation to make as accurate a guess as possible to his lineage. Me, I'm calling him a Colombian which means every female we bred him too was what we considered to be a Colombian. When I say no other boa mutation in the world has more potential and longevity than the Aztec Gene, I'm honestly not bragging, it's a fact based on 8 years of day to day experience and what has been produced thus far. When we say it's just the tip of the iceberg we're being quite truthful because in the years to come numerous 1st of it's kind boa mutations will be produced from Aztec genetics. Andrew

How many Colombian boa morphs have 2 different expressions of the Super form...? The Aztec does.

2008 Super Aztec next to a 2008 Patternless Super Aztec(2nd phenotype of Super Aztec

How many Colombian boa morphs have normal siblings from their litters producing from an F2 breeding examples like this.

Varied phenotypes from F2 breeding of Aztec siblings in 2009.

How many Hypo Colombian boa morphs produce colors like this.

I don't think anyone can represent or explain Aztec better than you Andrew !

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

My "Mayans" have remarkable similarity (in my opinion) except that the pattern is more vartiable and jungly in many cases...apparently even near full dorsal stripes can occur in F-1 outcrosses. I had produced several outcrossed litters and several inbred/line-bred litters over the past few years and never got extreme stripes from an outcross until recently...proving it's not recessive and not a "super." The extremely light colored offspring have only been produced in inbred/line-bred litters (and the recent litter proved it not to be a "super hypo" not that I thought it could be), and the color tone is similar to the type-2 Super Aztec....but, I get those in both extreme dorsal stripes and pretty much "normal" patterns? What I do get is the extreme variability in color of "hets"...anery' mimics, high red, high yellow, high pink, purplish/gray & black, etc. If the light color is the super of a codom, then I'm getting viable offspring from supers in this line also; still working on whether it's recessive or codom....numbers thus far point more to recessive, but I need more breedings to be sure (I tend to think it's codom'). Aztecs sure throw the color and pattern...I can't wait to see high red super Aztec albinos in the future.

but again, there are no photos, right?

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af33/DeHartsAnimalEnterprises/MayanOutcrosses/MayanOutcrosses115.jpg

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af33/DeHartsAnimalEnterprises/MayanOutcrosses/MayanOutcrosses121.jpg

I have not edited my Photobucket labels, etc., and early posts still reflect calling them "variable pigmentation gene," etc. Apparently the extreme dorsal stripes are codom and not "supers," and the color that is so light may yet be proven to be recessive or "super" of codom...because of the numbers in previous litters it's leaning toward recessive, but then until recently so was the extreme striping. Since there's "visible hets" I tend to think it's codom.

Mother:

Andrew I remember you mentioned you were going to dig that picture up, I'm glad you did thx !

Not I will add it to my extensive collection of Aztec images

I have several you posted but not all of them !

Hopefully before long I'll have an Aztec/Hytec to add to my collection !

It's great to see post like this from you Andrew but any post
regarding the Aztec Boas is a great Post !

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

I love the history- where did the orange influence come from? the offspring from the original male are so red/orange compared to him- what beautiful snakes!thanks again

The vivid colors came from the females he was bred too. The Aztec mutation acts like a magnifier of sort's and really turns up the volume with whatever the mutation is plugged into plus I think the Aztec mutation possesses a subtle kind of Hypomelenism or something similar. If you look at the results from breeding the Aztec into the Anerythristic and Hypo genes you can see what I'm referring too and then there's the two phenotypes of Super Aztec. In all honesty I'm not sure exactly what is going on but one thing is for sure, It's guaranteed to be genetic. The only negative(for some) is it's going to take many year's before we have a firm grasp on how the Aztec gene works in all it's forms. Thanks to everyone for their interest in the Aztec and appreciate those who made an effort to respond. Take care and best of luck, Andrew

Thanks again everyone. Very interesting and a lot to digest!

Oh Yeah Andy AZTECS RULES!!!
here are some off our 2010 Offspring
We really love them!!
cheers,
Eric

Have any of those (type-2) very light colored ones cropped out of "Aztec littermates" in F-2's?

DeHart, let me see if I understand your question correctly. Are you referring to the two different looking Anerythristics..? If you are, they along with the normal and the pastel(as seen in a photo I posted earlier) were produced from breeding a brother and sister together from an Aztec litter produced in 2005. I think it makes all those from the brother and sister litter F2'S. Hope this helps and if not don't hesitate to inquire further. Take care, Andrew

In the pic showing two "supers," the "patternless" one is much lighter in color with washed out pattern. My question was if you had ever got this or similar color/pattern reduction from breeding non-Aztec littermates together. How many Aztec-littermate litters have there been? Thanks!

dang! suddenly my male seems very average..lol Great posts and pics!
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4.9 BCI (Developing Project)
1.1 Eastern Indigo (Takata/Bruce)
2.3 Western Hognose (Albino/Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (High Yellow/Sorong)
1.1 Kimberly Monitor
1.0 Ctenosaura Conspicuosa (Sexy Tame!)
1.1 Sahara Uromastic (Deer Fern Red Phase)
2.2 Crested Gecko
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python (Trophy)
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle (Pet)
1.0 Pitbull (Exceptional)
1.2 Kids (Hybrids)
0.1 Ball and Chain (Used)

Im starting to become a fan of the aztec more and more...

I especially cant wait to see all the aztec combos in the near future.
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Richard Ceniceros