Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've kept rat snakess on aspen and carefresh primarily, but recently made the switch to sani chips. I like substrates that clump to fecal waste and dry it so I can spot clean rather than changing out a whole smelly sheet of newspaper. This is especially true with rat snakes considering how much some of mine poop.

I like the sani chips better than anything else I've used so far, but they're so small that they stick to thawed rodents like crazy. I've tried feeding on a piece of newspaper or in a hide, but some of my snakes drag their food around and still get chips stuck to it. It's not so convenient for me to pull them all out to feed in a substrate-less container considering all the time that takes to go through the whole collection.

Is there some other clumping substrate I should try that I wouldn't have to worry about the snakes ingesting? Or am I just being too cautious about them occasionally swallowing some sani chips? If they can digest mouse bones and bird beaks, I wouldn't think a few small pieces of wood would cause them too much trouble but I've been very careful to avoid testing that idea so far.

Aspen shavings, feeding on news paper and separate containers because of impaction concerns, I'm going through the same thing. I haven't gone with the chips because I figured it'd make matters worse.
One thing I have done for desert dwellers and a leopard tort I have is to use vitasand. Its said to be impaction resistant and adds calcium to the diet if it is taken in.
Never had a problem with it. The longest with it is the leopard tort that is about 8 years old now. He was the size of a walnut when we got him and is about a foot long now.
He's an eating machine.
The other snakes I have where the aspen becomes a problem are just housed on news paper. If they are ok with it, calm and feeding its alot less hastle.
Some simply went back to paper because I got tired of the shavings constantly getting shoved into the water bowl.
Some snakes won't calm down until they can dig under something like aspen. Aspen also looks more natural and clumps well but can be a pain too with some snakes.
I don't think you'll find an all purpose bedding. You just have to find what what works for a given snake.
Mike.

Kevin,
I think Sani-Chip is one of the best substrates out there for many types of commonly-kept snakes.

Never saw impaction, but I have had to remove pieces stuck inside the mouth of snakes. Still, never saw an issue from it.

Here is a pic of a substrate I am using now (rosy cage) - it is a recycled paper product in granular form. Too large to get stuck in teeth and soft enough to break down quickly in a snake's gut.

Does tend to suck the moisture out of certain types of moisture-sensitive baby snakes, so provide a humid hide or other mechanism.

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Mark

"but I have had to remove pieces stuck inside the mouth of snakes."

I don't think I have but one or two snakes that would tolerate clearing thier mouth while feeding.
The food item would come back up or be rejected and the feed for that snake would be done for the day.

>>I don't think I have but one or two snakes that would tolerate clearing thier mouth while feeding.
>>The food item would come back up or be rejected and the feed for that snake would be done for the day.

Talking about one or two pieces only, and not often at all. Maybe you are keeping sensitive species, but my snakes don't regurge if I remove a 1/8 inch piece of wood from their gumline.
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Mark

Yeah, I usually try to keep a close eye on feeding snakes on aspen(especially very small young snakes. I have a pair of long tongs, and if I reach over very slowly and carefully even on very nervous individual's, they don't seem to be too freaked-out by it, even though they sometimes pull away immediately after doing so when they feel it being pulled out.

The long set of tongs are a very handy item indeed!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

I had one idea that I hesitated to mention since I've never heard of it before and didn't want you guys to think I'm crazy. I'll go for it though-I thought about trying kitty litter for substrate. It's super cheap to get all natural kitty litter that's just small pellets of clay with no additives. It's made to clump to poop and I'm thinking it'd easily dissolve if ingested.

I know from experience making dart frog backgrounds that it will dissolve into mush if left in water for very long. Obviously it'd still be best to avoid ingestion as much as possible, but I think it'd break down into very fine particles that should be easily passed by a well hydrated snake. I haven't really thought of a downside yet and may give it a test run. Any thoughts?

Well, only if there are absolutely ZERO additives whatsoever!, but I would want to make damn sure of that before letting a snake ingest any.

Otherwise I wouldn't guess it would be harmful if very small amounts were inadvertently ingested here and there. They certainly are in nature.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Yeah, the only ingredient is clay. It's safe for amphibians, so I'm not worried about any chemicals, etc (at least with this particular type). As far as ingesting it, I don't think it'd be any worse than a very small dirt clod. I'll conduct a few tests before I give it a shot though.

Yeah, that sounds like a smart plan Kevin. I would think very small amounts would pass fine if they were ingested.

If you put water on a little pellet and it turns to mush, I don't see it creating a problem inside the snake. Certainly no worse than anything else that would be inadvertently swollowed when they feed, and maybe even much better actually.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Kevin,
Some keepers have already tried it, and some of them have stuck with it. The no-additive kitty litter. Cheap, safe and effective according to those folks.

Only thing to watch for is dehydration of babies. Some substrates pull moisture from objects in them, and baby snakes have thin skin and small mass. Montane kings, tiny cornsnakes, etc. Just keep that in mind. Humid hide would be good for the more moisture-loss-sensisive species. Not sure if kitty litter does that but just keep an eye open.
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Mark

Interesting, I'd never heard of anyone using it before. I'm glad it seems to have worked well though. I just did a few test runs with large, hard pieces in a small amount of water (a few drops) and all broke down quickly. Apparently the cheap stuff like I'm using varies wildly in how readily it turns to mush so some bags may not perform as well. I hear from the dart frog folks that some of the more expensive brands are much more consistent and easier to melt in water.

I'm only considering it for adult corns and rats, but I think I'd still provide a humid hide to be safe. It's something else to test out, but I may just be able to mist it directly over the heating pad to raise humidity as necessary since it won't mold like wood-based substrates when wet. I'm thinking occasionally dampening an area over the hot side may be a good way to keep the humidity up.

I guess I'll take the plunge and try it with a single snake and go from there. I'll start a new thread once it's been set up for a few days and list any pros and cons I notice.

Good, look forward to hearing the good and bad if any. With adult snakes I doubt there is any issue.

Somewhat related -I used corn cob for years and years with absolutely no problems other than that pesky mold that would sometimes happen when the water spilled. Today corn cob is considered a horrible subtsrate by many, especially considering the alternatives available now. I disagree, but that is how the hobby goes. Ebbs and flows as to what is acceptable and what is not.
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Mark

Another thing to possibly watch for is the clay dust. The dust is so fine that it is a health concern for potter's. They have to wear protective masks when mixing dry clay.

Kevin,
You've got an innovative idea going on. I can't see where it could go wrong. Please keep us up to date on how it progresses!
Dan

I guess I've been very lucky.
I've never had a loss to aspen...
(I guess I need to play the lottery!!)
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There's nothing wrong with cautiously trying alternatives to best suite your needs, preferences, and setup genres.
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Some cage decor, made from products and materials that wouldn't normally be exposed to animals or people, can pick up "hitch-hiking" critters and, worse, chemicals.
These can be applied even in a factory warehouse or shipping dock.

An example was some industrial gravel that a friend used in the early '70s. It wiped out a tank of frogs, even after going through the normal introduction washing.
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Turns out that the building supply warehouse regularly sprayed insecticides on outdoor materials.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

I know what your saying on kitty litter but if it works you've got a cheap bedding choice.
On the other hand if the trial goes bad, unknown chemicals, impaction, you've got a dead snake.
Stick with proven beddings like newspaper, aspen, or others that herp hobbiests can say they've used for years.
mike.

I'm not sure about sani chips but I've used aspen over the years for almost all my babies up to yearling age if not sold yet. I've never had a snake get hurt due to aspen choking or impaction. I do dry rodents most of the way before feeding on the aspen.
I've never figured out why people worry about it. If they have a snake hurt by eating off aspen I would have to assume the snake must have been sick or their was something else involved although I assume a freak accident could occur.
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Randy Whittington