Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a black rat snake that has been acting very unusual lately. I do not know the sex of it, he is about 4" long and i have owned him for 5 years but he is older then that ( rescued). Usually when i pick him up hes fine, but lately he has been jumpy... When i go to pick him up he will dart to the other side of the cage or try to get out of his cage. He is also spending a lot of time hiding in one of his hides, and i rarely see him come out at night anymore, or see him basking during the day. It has been about 3 days since this has started. He never refuses a meal, and never regurgitates his meals either. Here is a bit about his cage and care

40 gal breeder
2 hides ( col and warm)
83-85 on the warm side
74-76 on the cool
big water dish ( cleaned everyday)
2 pieces of wood to help him shed
a moss shed hide
basking light
aspen bedding ( changed when needed, about 3 inches thick on some sides)
misting once a day twice if its in shed
1 F/T adult mouse a week unless in shed

His conditions sound mostly okay to me, but I'd probably feed him a bit more - maybe 2 - 3 adult mice per week. I've had lots of black rats and other obsoletus, and a 5 year old black rat should be longer than 4 feet IMO...

Black rats don't need very high humidity either, and he should be fine without misting if he has a good moist hide which stays moist. You could mist him a little, if he is in a shed - although he would probably already be in his moist hide. If he is hiding in his dry hide, he may be tired of being wet...

On the subject of him being jumpy - sounds like he may be tired of being bothered. Let him be for a few days between handling - not every day. Completely leave his cage alone during this time - water doesn't have to be changed every day, unless fouled. I change my snakes' water once a week, and they are all fine. Also, snakes can become nervous when kept in clear, glass tanks as they are always in view if they are not in their hides. I have kept snakes in glass tanks before, but mostly keep them in tubs in racks or plastic cages with solid colored walls - only the front is clear. You might try blocking three of the tank's walls - back and both sides. Also, if the cage is in a high traffic area - where lots of people are walking by or looking at him, it can also be stressful to the snake. They are by nature very secretive creatures...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

I only feed him one mouse a week because a few people told me he was getting over weight when i was feeding him 2 adults per week. And sometimes he refuses the second mouse, maybe ill try adding a smaller one ( hopper) and see if he will eat. As for his size, he is kinda small, he was abandoned for about a year before I was able to take him home myself, he was maybe 2 feet long I was told approx 2-3 years in age by that point, had mites, had shed issues as well. Since having him he has grown a lot he was in a 30 gal tank before but since moving him to a 40 gal ( moved a year ago) he has already grown .5". I will also put some walls up as of right now he only has a back wall, but I will get something up for the sides. I also change the water so much cause he knocks the apsen chips in there a lot, he likes to bury himself then pop up at the dish, so he knocks a fair amount in sometimes. Thank you for your info, I have attached some pictures of him, if you dont mind, can you take a peek at his picture and tell me if hes under weight?

This was Bandit about a year ago

http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq44/Raven187/bandit/IMAG0470.jpg?t=1304515567

and this one about a month of so ish
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq44/Raven187/bandit/IMAG0742.jpg?t=1304515608

The snake looks pretty good to me, and the setup seems to be pretty decent as well. After being neglected and in such poor conditions prior to you owning it, this can cause snakes to be a bit smaller than they normally would be if well-cared for in their more rapid-growing younger years(first two or so)

It could also very likely be a male that is instinctively searching for a mate too. This is very typical behavior for many male snakes. But since it is still eating, it may not be the case at all. Most all males when they are in "search for female" mode won't want to eat at ALL so they stay active and on-the-go instead of sitting hidden in a coil somewhere digesting.

BTW, I am certain that snake has a MUCH better life now it is in your care, so a big HAT'S OFF to you for rescuing it from it's previous owner!..

Best of luck with it!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

I agree with Doug - good job with rehabilitating him, and I am glad to see he is in your hands now. He looks pretty good to me.

I am sticking by my original thoughts - maybe a little more food; less misting; and a bit more privacy. A deeper (taller), heavy ceramic water bowl will help with keeping the substrate out of the water.

I don't think he is lookng for a mate because most males go off feed (or at least eat less and less often) until they get it out of their system, so to speak...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

I will try to feed him more each week and cut back on the misting, I have already put some walls up for him and bought him a higher water dish so i dont disturb him for a few days =) thank you for your help

>>I will try to feed him more each week and cut back on the misting, I have already put some walls up for him and bought him a higher water dish so i dont disturb him for a few days =) thank you for your help

No problem - I hope he settles down for you. If he is eating and digesting okay, that is a big plus, and it seems like he is doing okay.
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

how long should i wait to see a change in him? He ate 2 adult mice the other day without any hesitations. He is still only hiding in his cave, and he still hasn't come out since about may 1st on his own, the only time he has come out was to get some water but then he quickly goes back into his cave. His last shed was over 2 weeks ago i think i forgot to mention that

>>how long should i wait to see a change in him? He ate 2 adult mice the other day without any hesitations. He is still only hiding in his cave, and he still hasn't come out since about may 1st on his own, the only time he has come out was to get some water but then he quickly goes back into his cave. His last shed was over 2 weeks ago i think i forgot to mention that

He sounds like he is acting like a normal caged snake, to me. I have had snakes go through temperament changes before, for seemingly no reason. Maybe he wants to breed... Maybe he is just not wanting to be bothered...

Another idea - I noticed in your more recent pic of him, it looks like there is an overhead light over his cage. Does it stay on all day, or was it just used for the photo? What wattage is it, and how bright? When I used to keep snakes in glass tanks, I used light bulbs too - but found that this can keep some agitated. They really need a much shadier area of the cage to escape to - not just hides. In nature, snakes decide when they will expeose themselves to sunlight and ratsnakes are not really strong sunlight lovers. They are more crepuscular than diurnal, so really prefer muted light. One way to make shade in a cage is to provide some plants / vines (plastic are fine). This will break up the light, making shade, and will also make the snake feel like he is hiding among foliage. There is a thread somewhere here, from a while back, which is all about this.
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

normal snake behavior for him is usually going through the wood i have in there and staring at me whenever i go by his tank. Him constantly hiding like this is very unusual.

I was told by a local reptile store that i should use a basking area for him, its a zoo med 75W one, they told me to go higher but i thought this was plenty for him. I have the light on for 4-6 hours depending on the season right now, i have had the light on since late November, so i had it on maybe 4 hours, and now its about 6, but i keep it a good 3-5 inches away from the top of the screen. Since he has been acting weird the only time i turn it on is when i want to check the water, but then i turn it off and leave him alone, we have also been putting a blanket to cover 1/4 of his cage from the stairway lights that go on at night

Well, I don't know then... Maybe he / she is just getting up there in years and its temperament is changing a bit. I have seen this in some snakes in the past, but it is uncommon. I wouldn't worry much over it - if the snake still feeds and digests well, and is still handleable.

A couple other thoughts: I reread your original post, and found that the sex of the snake is unknown, so it could also be a female. If she has developed ovum, she may be in the mode of wanting to protect her eggs. This can make some females more secretive, and less comfortable with being handled.

And - there are some theories about snakes and brumation. Have you ever cooled the snake down during the winter? Black rats come from regions with a definate cold, winter period during which they will be mostly dormant. They have evolved for this, and a winter rest is seen by some as necessary to the well being of some species. I brumate all of mine over a year old, whether I plan to breed them or not, as I think somewhat along these lines. One part of this theory is that snakes which do not get a winter cooling may have their lives shortened due to not getting a winter rest. If there truly is anything to this, then maybe there are other effects this may have on snakes. Not all snake keepers believe this though, and so some see this as speculation...

I would suggest that you take the snake to a good exotics vet, if possible - if you are extremely concerned. Maybe have it checked for infections, fecals checked, etc...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

I may have to read up on cooling it down, but first i may try to see if i can get it to a reptile person to check if its a female or a male, if its female maybe i will try cooling it, if its a male then... well ill probably take it to a vet regardless if it keeps acting this way. I honestly dont mind if its not wanting to be handled, I am perfectly fine with not handling it unless its a emergency. Only time will tell I guess, now I have to find a vet i can trust with it...