Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm in an interesting position. My wife and I are moving to a new house in a few weeks, and my two Burmese are going with us. At our current residence, we have a nice utility building behind our house where my two big burms and lone Everglades rat snake live. The new house has no such utility building. So we're having one built. Tentative dimensions will be 12x16, insulated and climate-controlled. I am currently breaking several major rules of herpetoculture, the most glaring of which is that I have two Burmese in one cage. That won't be going on much longer. What I would like to do is set up my building to be a Burmese python paradise, within reason of course (i.e., no waterfalls or jungle motif). The snakes will be separated, with the male retaining sole ownership of a big Neodesha cage I have. I will build a bigger cage especially for my female, an enormous albino. If you had such a building at your disposal, how would you set it up? I have considered everything from building a huge cage into the wall to devoting one whole side of the building to the female. Any suggestions? How 'bout substrate? Heating? (Regarding heating, I just kind of figured I'd just heat the entire building, but I'm not sure how. Electricity? Gas?)

Don't worry about the rat snake -- he doesn't count!

RP

Well gtiven the size your young lady will get I'd give her half the space so she can grow but make sure there is secure cageing around her above & on the sides you don't want a leviathan to get loose in your area. This way she would have to escape 2 areas which actually lessens the chances plus you'll have room to manuever before you actually enter her cage. As for substrate & heating I'm not sure where you're located so I don't how the climate is. If you original setup worked well then stick w/ that as far as temps. & substrate. The advantage you have is it's being built from scratch so you make your own crawl space etc. Let us know what you decide.

if you plan on getting more snakes i would build an 18 inch platform on the 16 ft sides of the building.Then you could put 6 or eight cages on each sides.
I would insulate the floor walls and ceiling. If the the climate is real cold i would use 2 by 6's for the walls. I would use an electric oil filled heater to heat the whole room. I would use a warm mist vaporizer for humidity. I would also put in a ceiling fan to keep the air moving in the building. If it gets real hot in the summer i would install an attic fan to draw out the excess hot air.
I would have lighs set up on a timer to simuale day night cycle.
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Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
(252) 757-3879

My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!

,...... and great suggestions you made here. Although I don't quite understand your platform idea, I couldn't have said the rest better myself. (except I feel that cool mist humidifiers are superior) Keep on herping!

>>if you plan on getting more snakes i would build an 18 inch platform on the 16 ft sides of the building.Then you could put 6 or eight cages on each sides.
>> I would insulate the floor walls and ceiling. If the the climate is real cold i would use 2 by 6's for the walls. I would use an electric oil filled heater to heat the whole room. I would use a warm mist vaporizer for humidity. I would also put in a ceiling fan to keep the air moving in the building. If it gets real hot in the summer i would install an attic fan to draw out the excess hot air.
>>I would have lighs set up on a timer to simuale day night cycle.
>>-----
>>Thomas Jones
>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>252) 757-3879
>>
>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
-----
Pebbles create ripples.
Ripples can become tidal waves.
Tidal waves sink ships.
The largest ships sink the fastest.

I should of put 18 inch high platforms. So the cages can be set on them and be off the floor.
I got the suggestions from a great guy whom i have never met. His name is Brian Smith, ever heard of him. Except the warm air vaporizer.
I was told the warm air vaporizers were better.
Oh yeah I gave in and got some burmese.I got a pair of het for granites. Take care Brian

>>,...... and great suggestions you made here. Although I don't quite understand your platform idea, I couldn't have said the rest better myself. (except I feel that cool mist humidifiers are superior) Keep on herping!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>if you plan on getting more snakes i would build an 18 inch platform on the 16 ft sides of the building.Then you could put 6 or eight cages on each sides.
>>>> I would insulate the floor walls and ceiling. If the the climate is real cold i would use 2 by 6's for the walls. I would use an electric oil filled heater to heat the whole room. I would use a warm mist vaporizer for humidity. I would also put in a ceiling fan to keep the air moving in the building. If it gets real hot in the summer i would install an attic fan to draw out the excess hot air.
>>>>I would have lighs set up on a timer to simuale day night cycle.
>>>>-----
>>>>Thomas Jones
>>>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>>>252) 757-3879
>>>>
>>>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
>>-----
>>Pebbles create ripples.
>>Ripples can become tidal waves.
>>Tidal waves sink ships.
>>The largest ships sink the fastest.
-----
Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
(252) 757-3879

My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!

Hey there. Yeah, I remember. I was just being facetious. But I had suggested 6 inch swivel wheels, not an 18 inch platform. That must have come from someone else. I'm glad that everything is working out well for you. Congrats on the het granites. And don't be a stranger here, you help to keep it alive during times of literary drought.

>>I should of put 18 inch high platforms. So the cages can be set on them and be off the floor.
>> I got the suggestions from a great guy whom i have never met. His name is Brian Smith, ever heard of him. Except the warm air vaporizer.
>> I was told the warm air vaporizers were better.
>> Oh yeah I gave in and got some burmese.I got a pair of het for granites. Take care Brian
>>
>>>>,...... and great suggestions you made here. Although I don't quite understand your platform idea, I couldn't have said the rest better myself. (except I feel that cool mist humidifiers are superior) Keep on herping!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>if you plan on getting more snakes i would build an 18 inch platform on the 16 ft sides of the building.Then you could put 6 or eight cages on each sides.
>>>>>> I would insulate the floor walls and ceiling. If the the climate is real cold i would use 2 by 6's for the walls. I would use an electric oil filled heater to heat the whole room. I would use a warm mist vaporizer for humidity. I would also put in a ceiling fan to keep the air moving in the building. If it gets real hot in the summer i would install an attic fan to draw out the excess hot air.
>>>>>>I would have lighs set up on a timer to simuale day night cycle.
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>Thomas Jones
>>>>>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>>>>>252) 757-3879
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
>>>>-----
>>>>Pebbles create ripples.
>>>>Ripples can become tidal waves.
>>>>Tidal waves sink ships.
>>>>The largest ships sink the fastest.
>>-----
>>Thomas Jones
>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>252) 757-3879
>>
>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
-----
Pebbles create ripples.
Ripples can become tidal waves.
Tidal waves sink ships.
The largest ships sink the fastest.
All Titanics are created equally.

I live in south Georgia, so it doesn't get unbearably cold down here. It dips into the 20's and teens for a few days, but much of the winter is spent in the 30's and 40's. My heating plan for the cooler months last year worked, but I want a better plan this year. I did have to move the snakes inside for about four days during a particularly nasty cold spell. I think I can get the heating down pretty good, but I'm interested in using a different substrate. I've just always used newspaper, but in an enclosure as large as what I'm planning, I'm not sure newspaper would be the best thing. And I'm not up on my substrates. I know some are good, some are bad but I can't remember which is which. I think I remember something about not using cedar. Is that correct?

RP

I would never use cedar in my reptiles cages or any animals cages. Rabbits,rats,mice none of them either. You can go to Home Depot and buy Cypress mulch i have never used it but i have heard good things about it.

>>I live in south Georgia, so it doesn't get unbearably cold down here. It dips into the 20's and teens for a few days, but much of the winter is spent in the 30's and 40's. My heating plan for the cooler months last year worked, but I want a better plan this year. I did have to move the snakes inside for about four days during a particularly nasty cold spell. I think I can get the heating down pretty good, but I'm interested in using a different substrate. I've just always used newspaper, but in an enclosure as large as what I'm planning, I'm not sure newspaper would be the best thing. And I'm not up on my substrates. I know some are good, some are bad but I can't remember which is which. I think I remember something about not using cedar. Is that correct?
>>
>>RP
-----
Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
(252) 757-3879

My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!

As far as the basics, try to have plumbing and a sink, plenty of electric, etc. For heating, you might want to give pro products a call as their radiant heat panels are not only great for heating cages (that's what we use to heat all of our boa/python/herp cages), but they also work great for heating residentials (and are very cheap to operate). For cages, aside from making sure it is very secure, get something that will provide easy access. Neodesha or perhaps a cage by Habitat Systems (we use HS for our displays) would work very well. I personally like either newspaper or aspen bedding as a substrate (nothing, though, beats paper). Make sure the building is UNCLUTTERED so that you can take your burms out w/out having to worry about them getting into trouble (even under close supervision). A sensor alarm would be a good addition which will alert you should the building get too hot or too cool. Make sure the building itself is secure and an alarm would be a worthwhile investment. Make sure you have signage to warn people about trespassing and perhaps even what is inside. These all seem like common sense so I don't know if this helped or not but good luck; sounds really neat.

Do you work for pro products on commission? lol, just kidding. Seriously though, the only reason why I dissagree with using individual heating elements in a case like this (unless they are used IN CONJUNCTION with a full room space heater) is because a remote, detached reptile building like this may get very cold in the winter months. And to only heat the cages themselves is just asking for trouble with extreme chills every time a cage is open or near vents or door cracks. Plus the snakes could never come out of their cages should the room be less than 75 degrees. It is best to at least get the room ambient temperatures up to the low or mid 80's. Otherwise it is easiest and cheapest to simply maintain the room at the temps one want's their snakes to be. I still to this day have never heard, seen or read ANY conclusive data that supports the concept that snakes HAVE to have a thermal gradient. I have not provided this for the majority of my boids over the decades and have never had any problems with the health or breeding of my snakes. I think this is mostly only a matter of preference.

>>As far as the basics, try to have plumbing and a sink, plenty of electric, etc. For heating, you might want to give pro products a call as their radiant heat panels are not only great for heating cages (that's what we use to heat all of our boa/python/herp cages), but they also work great for heating residentials (and are very cheap to operate). For cages, aside from making sure it is very secure, get something that will provide easy access. Neodesha or perhaps a cage by Habitat Systems (we use HS for our displays) would work very well. I personally like either newspaper or aspen bedding as a substrate (nothing, though, beats paper). Make sure the building is UNCLUTTERED so that you can take your burms out w/out having to worry about them getting into trouble (even under close supervision). A sensor alarm would be a good addition which will alert you should the building get too hot or too cool. Make sure the building itself is secure and an alarm would be a worthwhile investment. Make sure you have signage to warn people about trespassing and perhaps even what is inside. These all seem like common sense so I don't know if this helped or not but good luck; sounds really neat.
-----
Pebbles create ripples.
Ripples can become tidal waves.
Tidal waves sink ships.
The largest ships sink the fastest.
All Titanics are created equally.

Absolutely Brian, I assumed that the building was also heated in addition to providing a gentle heat such as pro products (and no, I don't get commission and rarely give endorsements on products unless I really believe in them). And as far as providing thermal gradients go, once again, I think it is just a personal philosophy that I adhere to but at the same time realize that a number of folks have had long term success with unilateral thermal gradients at moderately high temps. Burms and other large constrictors are fairly sendentary and spend most of their time in underground burrows that maintain steady temps (but since there is so much we don't know on preferred thermal zones, I like to err on the side of giving a few choices). Each person must decide what works best for them.

I know you don't freelance for proproducts. I was just having fun. I too frequently "endorse" a certain product or products that has worked or is working well for me. The latest has been these Reli-On cool mist humidifiers. But I am about to change all of that real soon. While the cool mist aspect is perfect,. this particular brand only seems to last about 2 months when used constantly 24/7. And that is just not long enough. I am going to try the Vicks cool mist humidifier next and see if that works any longer. I just hate having to replace equipment frequently.

As for thermal gradients,.. I do agree with you. Giving them a choice is best. I was just pointing out that I don't think it is "necessary". I would certainly set up all of my cages to have more of a gradient (though not quite the range you often have) if I weren't so paranoid about fires. I have this concern about having too many electrical components increasing fire risk. And one good fire and I am wiped out. So I keep it real simple and run as few electrical components as is possible. Even so I have many smoke alarms, fire extinguishers on hand, and never is my place left unattended. I'm hoping when I build my future breeding facility to have not only mostly non-flamable materials as the main construct, but to also have fire sprinklers in the ceilings. I have already looked into it and there is a lot of regulation in having it installed, but I should be able to swing it. Maybe then I will go nuts on providing nice, multi-temp environments for my babies. Unless in the meantime I can invent a simpler system involving heated water in continuous plumbing throughout adjoining caging. Wow,... that just popped into my head. I should get offline and begin sketching.

>>Absolutely Brian, I assumed that the building was also heated in addition to providing a gentle heat such as pro products (and no, I don't get commission and rarely give endorsements on products unless I really believe in them). And as far as providing thermal gradients go, once again, I think it is just a personal philosophy that I adhere to but at the same time realize that a number of folks have had long term success with unilateral thermal gradients at moderately high temps. Burms and other large constrictors are fairly sendentary and spend most of their time in underground burrows that maintain steady temps (but since there is so much we don't know on preferred thermal zones, I like to err on the side of giving a few choices). Each person must decide what works best for them.
-----
Pebbles create ripples.
Ripples can become tidal waves.
Tidal waves sink ships.
The largest ships sink the fastest.
All Titanics are created equally.