Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am getting a bit concerned about what is going on with my kingsnake. She came in my front door seven years ago. She brumates every winter no matter what. I made the mistake of trying to keep her warm one winter because she still refused to eat and lost a lot of weight. My concern is that every year the brumations last longer. It started out that it started in Sept and went to Feb. Then Sept to March. The Sept to April. Then Aug to April and this year it went from Aug to May. Once she gets going she eats like a pig. But dog gone it, going 9 months without eating may save me money on food but I am really getting desperate for her. I'm almost tempted to let her go because it's getting difficult to watch. And, no, she's not sick. What would ya'll do?

I've never heard of anything like that. What kind of King is she?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

She is a Desert King. I've never heard of it either and that's why I am concerned even though she seems perfectly okay otherwise.

How is her weight? Also, are you sure it is a female?
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Mark

Her weight is fine. I am amazed. Doesn't seem to have lost but maybe only an ounce if that much. She's about 5 or so feet long, and yes, she is as she.

"5 feet or so" sounds pretty large for a female Desert king, especially for one that shuts down for so long during the year.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

So, Doug, are you saying that she may not be a female or that she is not that long? I had an expert tell me her sex and I have her in a 60 gal aquarium/terrarium that is 4 feet long. She stretches all the way across the front and continues along the side and she's not even all stretched out. She eats well when she does eat. I feed her mice, birds, bird eggs, lizards and even a baby cottentail.

I have refrained to give an answer here, so I can think this one thru a bit. However, if she is keeping good weight and she seems to be doing ok, then keep her and just keep watching for clues of anything that may make you think something else is wrong.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

I did notice this year that her first poop was rather odd ... if that was in fact a poop. That's how odd it was. I thought it was because it had been so long between meals. This second feeding has not produced one yet and it's been several days. Usually it doesn't take this long. This is the only difference I have seen.

Well, I really only meant that males are the larger of the two sexes, and are usually the ones that get 60 plus inches or more. I know of at least one specimen that was reported to be 71 inches long that was certainly a large male. If someone sexed yours that did know what they were doing as you mentioned, yours could easily be a very good sized female.

Do you happen to know how old she is?

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

If her weight is fine, then she is fine on whatever feeding schedule she is insisting on.

I had a Cal king that I kept for 17yrs before giving it away. At 17yrs old, it would only eat maybe 8 times a year but maintain its weight just fine on that.
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Mark

I usually listen to what my snakes are trying to tell me. If , for some reason she wants to brumate for 9 months, let her. It's certainly not going to hurt her any.
www.4lakessnakes

>>I am getting a bit concerned about what is going on with my kingsnake. She came in my front door seven years ago. She brumates every winter no matter what. I made the mistake of trying to keep her warm one winter because she still refused to eat and lost a lot of weight. My concern is that every year the brumations last longer. It started out that it started in Sept and went to Feb. Then Sept to March. The Sept to April. Then Aug to April and this year it went from Aug to May. Once she gets going she eats like a pig. But dog gone it, going 9 months without eating may save me money on food but I am really getting desperate for her. I'm almost tempted to let her go because it's getting difficult to watch. And, no, she's not sick. What would ya'll do?

To answer that question I think we need to have an idea of your husbandry and set up.....

You say you tried to keep her warm one winter.....Did you do this by warming her entire enclosure or providing an isolated hot spot?

What temperature gradient do you provide......at what time of year?......Is there a Humidity gradient provided?
If she's in an aquarium.....do you have a deep substrate and or tight hides? Is she out of high traffic areas?

Seven years ago when you got her what size/age was she?

To be honest....I have never HAD a snake go into brumation on its own....
Even all the mountain kings that I've kept in the past and now keep will feed through the Winter if they are not breeding the next Spring. None of the getula I've kept have ever "gone off feed" unless they were ill......

But each snake is individually different from one another.......Yours may just be "different."
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I no longer try to keep her warm during the winter so that is not the issue. I always have an undertank heater on one end except when it gets really hot in the New Mexico/Texas summer. She was just about 12 or 14 inches when she came in from the wild. I tried like hell to keep her from going into brumation but she does it no matter what. Last year she drifted off in Aug when we were still getting into the high 90's low 100's. I was baffled. I even offered her a beer with her meal but she wouldn't budge. When she quits, she quits. Maybe she knew we were going to have record breaking cold temps here this year. 20 below there for a while. It caused great havoc with the utilities and pipes.

I was always under the impression that males were smaller, but I'm no pro that's for sure.

Males will usually be a bit bigger with kings but its not an exact science. More relevant is the fact that males will go off feed or much longer than females. They refuse food all winter and then again over the breeding season.

There are many snakes that will naturally go off feed during the winter. I personally believe that it has to do with light cycles from natural light sources. Some people (usually the ones with snakes in the basement) say that they don't observe spontaneous hibernation, but I can assure you that it happens in some perfectly healthy snakes. It may also have to do with the genetics and original locality of the individual snakes. In my experience this phenomena is also much more likely in males.

Regardless going nine months of the year is unusual but not in and of it self cause for concern in an otherwise healthy snake. I would be able to offer more advice if you gave some more specifics of your husbandry. Specifically the exact temperature gradient at different types of the year. Going off feed when its still hot in august is just plain unusual. I would imagine they could try to estivate (sp), but I wouldn't think your home would be comfortable for you at temps that high.

I would have another person resex your snake. And please post more specifics about your husbandry. Otherwise my basic rule of thumb is I don't care if a snake is anorexic if it isn't loosing weight no matter how long its been. I would highly suggest weighing your snake on a regular basis. I would be very surprised if it did not loose more than 10% of its weight over a 9 month fast. This would be cause for concern.

I do not have an artificial light on her and with the exception of the UT heater she lives in the same temperatures as I do. I did use a light for added heat the year I regretted trying to keep her warm for the winter. She still didn't eat. As I said, the time of her brumations is getting longer and longer each year even though I haven't changed her living situation ... except that one time. I did notice that she isn't pooping the same this year and instead of roaming around this spring as she has done in the past she was very very grumpy and aggressive. I couldn't even walk by her inclosure without her striking at me. Very unusual. I'm sorry I can't give more info on the difference in temps from one end to the other.

"I'm sorry I can't give more info on the difference in temps from one end to the other."

This is probably your problem. Thermometers are cheap.

I don't think that people are understanding my concern. She has it cool on one end and warm on the other. I'm just wondering why she is making her brumation times longer and longer no matter what the temperatures are.

By FAR the most common reason for an animal not to eat is improper husbandry. This is not meant to be an attack on you. You have a huge snake who is not overtly ill, so you must be doing most things right!

There are very specific temps that your snake needs to digest, and if she doesn't have them, she won't eat. What your snake is doing is not normal. Since she lives in a small box in your home, there is probably something that is not quite right there.

Without much more specific information on how you care for her, no one here will be able to help you. I do not believe that there is any specific veterinary, or behavioral reason for what you are seeing, although a visit to a vet just to rule out parasites and other oddball things would not be the worst idea.

Cheers

If I have been doing the same thing every year, even with the temperatures which don't fluctuate very much because I have health issues that make it uncomfortable for me when they do, then it can't be because of the temperatures. All else is the same too. Plenty of clean aspen bedding, an UTH, plenty of hides, a real luxury compared to the poor snakes that have to spend their lives in little plastic boxes with nothing but a bowl and newspaper, with no scenery and they can't even stretch out. With her habitat and temps being the same and my only concern is that she is brumating longer and longer each year ... well, I don't know what more I can say to find out why she may be doing this.