Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What about "platy" fish for feeder ? All the guppy feeder i found at the pet shop are quite small and my baby water snake seem to have problem catching these (in fact he seem to prefer trout piece, but they are frozen and less nutritious). Is there just the goldfish that we should not give ?

I'm sure "platy" fish would work fine. I think they are usually a bit expensive to use for feeders but I don't see any reason why they wouldn't make a nice meal. Just a note, goldfish aren't THAT terrible a food item when offered in moderation.

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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

Mizar 21,
Hundreds of millions of people eat goldfish/carp and do just fine but as Pierson points out "moderation" is the key. Other food items or fish species for example should be provided. Remember that trout "pieces" are not a whole food unless you're offering the entire fish in segments. In that case the odd goldfish would be beneficial. Except for the expense as noted by P.H., platys, mollies, guppies and the like are just fine. Any appropriate size, fresh water fish with NO known toxins will suffice. However even though water snakes do fine with catfish (spines) I would be cautious.

With the goldfish, its the thiaminase deficiency that bother me. But if one once in a while isnt too bad...then i may use them to vary his diet. Right now he's a baby, so i will continue with the guppy abd trout, maybe if i put some vitamins and calcium on the piece it will improve its nutricious value.

Why not consider switching your water snake over to a rodent diet? Buy and freeze whatever fish your snake particularly likes to eat and use that frozen fish to scent appropriately-sized rodents (pinkie mice or parts thereof in your case). Less of a problem with food availability. Less of a problem with transmission of parasites. I keep a midland water snake, Nerodia sipedon pleuralis, that eats large rats. I had a northern water snake, N. s. sipedon, caught as an adult that lived ten years on a rodent diet.

Do you think that a 9 1/2 inch snake can take a pinkie ? And my snake seem to eat only what he find in his water bowl...maybe i should begin by having him eat fish out of the bowl then follow with pinkie ?

Yes, a 9 1/2 inch snake can easily take a small pinky. My neonate N. fasciata took fish-scented mice quite readily for the limited time I had them. The best strategy to get them to feed initially is to put the snake in a bowl of fish and get him excited. Before he catches a fish, pull him out and dangle a scented pinky in his face. It may take several tries but he should grab it and begin to swallow.
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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

Here’s how I would start the process. I’d go to a fish bait store and buy a bunch of live minnows (and also ask, “Hey, how about throwing those ones floating on top in for free?). I’d throw a few live minnows in the snake’s water bowl and freeze the rest. As it was catching and eating the minnows I’d throw in a thawed rodent. For the next feeding, I’d use one or two thawed minnows and more thawed rodents in the water bowl. Eventually, I’d work up to rubbing a still-frozen minnow on the rodents and offering the rodents to the snake on forceps. If they’re too excitable to take the food off of forceps, you can always just leave the food in the water bowl – with or without water.

If you observe how your snake responds to the live food, it can give you tips on how to present dead or alternative food sources. Many water snakes not only smell the food, but also seem to react strongly to movement. Some, when they catch food in the water, seem to respond to the food brushing against their body. So you might want to tap the snake on the side of its neck with whatever food item you're offering to initiate a strike.

Anyway, what I described above was for adult snakes. You’d have to modify the size of the food items for your small snake. If you can’t obtain tiny fish and tiny pinkies don’t be shy about using pieces of fish and pieces of rodent. Your animal will soon grow large enough on that diet to accept larger whole animals. Good luck.

Did your Nerodia sipedon ever switch to unscented rodents? I am currently feeding my juvenile N. clarkii clarkii pinkies. They've probably had 10-15 meals of pinkies and they still show no interest if the food isn't scented with fish. I'm hoping they'll switch to unscented when older.

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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

>>Did your Nerodia sipedon ever switch to unscented rodents?

The one I kept for 10 years did eat unscented rodents, but I didn’t help the imprinting process very much by what I would offer her. You prompted me to look back at my records, and I could tell what aquatic flesh I was eating by reading this animal’s cards. If I was preparing salmon, catfish, whiting, shrimp, whatever, for myself, I’d toss a piece in the N. s. sipedon’s bowl. I even see a notation for “smoked trout skin.” Okay, I’m not proud of that. And sometimes, when I was out of fish for scenting, I’d just pour canned tuna oil on mice or small rats. Ummm, good.

She ate unscented rodents most readily during the warm months, when you’d expect a northern water snake to be eating most vigorously anyway.

Both my rhombifer and confluens take unscented f/t pinks and did pretty much from the time I caught them. It is all a matter of training them to eat in their bowl, then putting the mice in the bowl. Works like a charm. They go into feeding mode as soon as you start moving around the water in the bowl with the food item and grab it almost instantly.
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Andy Maddox
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains