Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Who has the nicest orange pueblans? I had a great super clean male years ago but made the mistake of selling him. Can't seem to find a pic of him either! Here is one of his offspring, he bred with classic pueblans and produced some outstanding babies. A buyer also told me later that theirs stayed nice and clean.

Lets see some nice oranges!

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Nick Puder
www.rnpreptiles.com

Wow!, that is a REALLY nice example man!

Many years ago, a guy named Geoff Thornton of "Got Milks?" had some pretty insane orange/apricots down in south Florida when they first hit the hobby. But I haven't seen or heard anything from him in years and years since the early-mid 90's.

Many folks are sold out of their stuff until a bit later on, but Don Shores might have some real nice one's soon.

Here is one of the pair I had back then from Geoff. Charlie Shanklin knows him well too, but I doubt he is even still into snakes anyway. Good luck finding a suitable mate for that stunner!. Yours looks to be way cleaner than this one was too.

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

That nice example of mine probably wasn't as good as the father once she grew up. At the time, I hadn't seen very many adult pueblans and did not realize how special my male was.
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Nick Puder
www.rnpreptiles.com

Generally speaking, young campbelli are characteristically clean... it's finding and producing clean adults that is the great challenge!

super clean hypo apricot I produced a few years back

the proud father, a hypo apricot male I purchased from Jerry Bedsole down in AL -- one of the cleanest pueblans I've ever seen!

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http://www.waffahousereptiles.com

exactly!.......most hatchlings are always fairly clean early on in life, it's the adults that usually "newsprint" and darken up rather heavily as they mature.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

I realize that, it was the father that was clean. Not sure what this one grew up to look like. Starting the hunt for a clean adult to go with my new halloween girl.
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Nick Puder
www.rnpreptiles.com

OHHHHHH if i only had what I had circa 1995.........here is a photo of a photo of one of the "uglier" adult orange campbelli I was working with back then. Unfortunately, I lost all my hard copy photos from back then except for this one single pic I located last year. Had 4 pairs: 2 looked like tis and two pairs were jaw droppingly insane. I wish I could show what I had back then.....absolutely MIND BLOWING.

Enjoy this one for what it's worth, adult female circa '94 - '99.

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Jerry Kruse

UPDATED!
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Pretty amazing for ugly...
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Nick Puder
www.rnpreptiles.com

STUNNING, Jerry! That one's awesome! I'm sure there's got to be some other clean ones still floating around.. descendents of this one and the like.
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http://www.waffahousereptiles.com

Well, considering the practices over the past decade, as well as some mentalities, who knows what remains out there. In many instances aesthetics has played a much larger role in the captive propagation of snakes having lost sight of sub-specific or locality integrity. I've seen a couple nice ornage campbelli babies in recent years, but the adults look NOTHING like what I and some others had back then. *sigh* you don't know what you have til it's gone. And we learn this in SO many different aspects of our lives, not just with reptiles.
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Jerry Kruse

UPDATED!
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

"Well, considering the practices over the past decade, as well as some mentalities, who knows what remains out there. In many instances aesthetics has played a much larger role in the captive propagation of snakes having lost sight of sub-specific or locality integrity"

Come on Jerry!!.there has to be TONS of them still out there!

.............mixed with all sorts of "cool", "improved"(crossed) other stuff from the peanut gallery..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

That thing is awesome man! Pueblans are so nice and look good too. I want to get some. How do they compare to hondurans as far as temperment?

just about all of the west mexican milks (sinaloae, nelsoni, campbelli, arcifera, conanti) start out as spastic biters and $#! slingers straight out of the egg.

however, the biting usually calms down after the first few months and most, if not all, of spastic behavior is gone by the end of year two.

Oh thank you so much Brian that was very helpful for my upcoming informed decision.

But I wasn't talking about western mexican milks. I was asking about peblans and hoduran milksnakes.

But thank you sincerely.

in my opinion pueblans are west mexican milks. they have the same basic personality traits as my nelsoni and arcifera (and breed earlier and double clutch just like them).

i've only ever had two hondurans. they never were what i would call completely calm. even as adults.

my male was also prone to biting. not defensively, mind you, just always looking for his next meal. no matter how much i stuffed him.

personality wise, i love all of my west mexican milks. they age well, like a fine wine.

Been breeding campbells for almost 30 years. There are no comparisons. Keep wash cloths handy for your hands. Maybe other breeders have mellow campbells but I haven't had any for the above period.

Mike

Super nice campbelli! I don't have any recommendations on finding orange specimens, but they're nice to look at!

Here are a few of mine produced from the "Old School" Zapotitlan lineage (via Dave Blody, Brian Mason, and the late Brian Richardson).
(Photos by Dell)
Male

Female (she's lightened considerably after dropping her clutch)

DANG Cole!!!!

That top photo'd specimen is just incredible!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

He's got a son who's almost as nice. I'll have to get photos of him at some point, too. I'm having some camer issues at the moment (won't stay charged long enough to take more than 2 photos at a time), but I'll try to get that resolved soon. The big female was super dark prior to brumation and even darker while gravid, but has lightened a ton since dropping eggs a month ago.

-Cole

Cool bud!,....look forward to seeing that one as well!

Interesting as heck how some colubrids can darken while gravid.....similar to Boa constrictors..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Locality pueblans? Didn't know there were any, still producing them?
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Nick Puder
www.rnpreptiles.com

There are a few of us around who still have lines we can trace back to founder stock. Ballard, Kruse, Brown, Shores, and myself to name a few. And yes, we are producing them! From my understanding, most of the founder stock from the various original lines (Blody, Applegate, etc.) came from a relatively small area around Zapotitlan, Puebla, just north of the Oaxaca state line. That said, many of the animals available today have significant L. t. nelsoni and/or L. ruthveni genes in them from the crossing done to create a "Pueblan-looking" amelanistic tricolor by so many of the "big name" breeders (and private dudes, too) in the mid-late 1990s. We had quite the discussion on here a few months back about the things we've had in the hobby and subsequently lost... for a variety of reasons... apathy and following trends seemed to be recurring themes in the various hypotheses.

In short, I seriously wish you luck in re-acquiring some of your prized stock. Sometimes it's only in retrospect that you realize what it is you had, isn't it?! I know I'm not the only one here who's been through that!

-Cole

I always thought I would never regret any sales. Held onto Pituophis and moved out lamps, now I'm getting back into lamps and wondering why I got out!
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Nick Puder
www.rnpreptiles.com

My first pueblan ever was very possibly from or related to Dave Blody stock. I got her as an adult in 1990. She was very similar to the one in your first pic. I bred her years later to a wide banded slight apricot-orange male, and produced some very nice babies. Wish I would have held onto one of them!
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Genesis 1:1