Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Please respond w/ the source cited....thanx

Scale counts should be nearly the same for all members of the obsoleta group.

I counted countless ratsnakes in the obselata complex a couple years ago to confirm non-hybrids. Each and every yellow,glades,gray,black and texas had the same identicle head scalation....even though the head SHAPE looked different...Odd,but not that distantly distinct,Jeff

"there is some phenotypic plasticity in head size in obsoleta - meaning that while head size is under genetic control, the size/shape that their heads will finally develop is affected by the food they eat. Since wild obsoleta tend to eat a lot of large prey items (squirrels), then wild snakes tend to have long, large heads, with proportionately long snouts. Captive obsoleta tend to eat smaller prey items, and tend to retain the short, blunt snouted head of the juvenile." Posted by Troy Hibbetts on 'another' forum, I was going to post the link but it was bleeped out.

That the wild snakes had bigger heads because they did not have the level of nutrition that the captive snakes had. The head/brain will receive it's share of the nutrition to the detriment of the body thereby growing proportionally larger. The captive specimen will have sufficient nutrition for the body to grow at an optimum rate along with the head.

.....any info. is appreciated. Probably ANOTHER lie by ODNR.

I have done ventral counts on a few obsoleta sheds, and while I have read that Texas rats can have as few as 218 ventrals, most I counted had over 230. I've counted as many as 237 on lindhiemeri. All of the blacks that I've counted were within that same range, with as much variation. I was really surprised that most yellow and glades rats that I've checked had a lower ventral count than most Texas and black rats that I've counted, even though yellows and glades tend to be more elongated in build. Hope this helps. Alan,

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