Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm not sure which is the more appropriate question to ask, so I'll ask both. What would you consider the minimum OR maximum cage dimensions for a baby Nile monitor. Space is not an issue, and I'm not getting the monitor for a while, so plenty of time as well. Just looking for opinions before I start down this path.

You can get the best temperature gradient by using a 20 gal long. I've kept a lot of small reptiles such as geckos, and blue belly (I lost count), and I can get the best temperature gradient with a 20 gal.

I would suggest a 20 long if you want to quickly kill your nile. For God's sake I don't even keep dwarf chameleons in a tank that small.
Your best bet is going to be to go with a custom built enclosure, even a smaller one that limits air flow. If you do well you are going to need a much larger enclosure (small room size with large water container) very quickly.

Actually, you might want to consider having good air flow. Having good ventilation is as important as having the right temperature. Dust particles and mold spores can wreak havoc on their immune systems and since they are small, the problem can quickly serious. Keeping it in a 20 gal long is fine for now, but they probably will outgrow it pretty quickly. So you will eventually have build them in a custom built cage soon.

Actually it is well know that you want to limit the air flow and ventilation. Becasue all monitors require humidity and can actually dehydrate very quickly even if drinking regularly if the humidity is to low. A 20 gallon tank could last you maybe a couple months if you have the correct setup. But It is imparative that you cover the screen top to limit the humidity.

I have 2 baby niles in a 4'x2'x14" at the time being and only have a couple of ventilations holes that are about 1/4" each.

As they get older you will need a much larger cage. I would say a minimum size for a male would be somewhere around 10'x5'6'tall.
female maybe around 8'x4'x6'. you will need hight so that you can have a deep soil base for both burrowing and cover as well as humidity.

Do you have a general idea about heating and humididty?

As far as the adult enclosure, that's really not going to be a problem. The area I'm looking at for that is about 20 by 20 for the adults. I have some idea about the heating/lighting side of things from checking out threads on here, and this is by no means my first reptile. I've been keeping herps for about 10 years now, and have a sizable collection of snakes, and a small collection of crocodilians that I'm currently working with. However, knowing that monitors are quite different from snakes and crocs, I wanna get my research done NOW well in advance of a purchase. I think the biggest thing I'm trying to learn about/work on is using smaller wattage bulbs to create the proper surface temps (in other words NOT using something like a 250 watt bulb). Water is certainly another question I have. How much water is too much for a young nile? IS there a thing as too much? This is going to be a custom built enclosure, so I'm thinking about going with something that I can attach a drain to, just to make water changes that much easier. Thanks for the replies.

If you are successfully keeping medium sized crocs, you will have no trouble with varanids.

A nile is about halfway to a croc.

The main difference is metabolism. Until monitors get old, their metabolism is about ten times that of a croc. Which means they require more heat and way more food.

Also if you want lots of trouble. then use a tank with a screen top.

Its not because its a tank, or because monitors are somehow different. The reason is, what I already mentioned. Varanids REQUIRE lots of heat, therefore it causes lots of dehydration. Heating a surface heats the air between the lite and the surface, causing it to raise and dehydrate whats below the lite. This is very true for water turtles as well.

The key is using a smaller bulb in the tank and much closer to the animal, therefore not needing to heat so much air.

oh and that paradon fella doesn't keep monitors and likes to pass on bad advice. Why he does, who knows, he cannot seem to stop himself.

The other two are giving you good advice.

I have a twenty by twenty foot cage, mines outdoors, having one indoors will cost wheelbarrows of money to keep in the right conditions, If you can do that, then the monitor/s you get will be one lucky monitor/s.

The goal for the adult cage is to do something that's partially outdoors, partially indoors. We live in NC, so the summers are GREAT here for keeping herps outside. However, the winters...not so much. Even spring and fall aren't that great. Right now for instance, it's not getting below the high 60's at night, up in to the 90's during the day, and our crocodilians still aren't quite at full time feeding yet. We have had success keeping Argentine Tegus outside for MORE of the year, but we still always brought them in from mid october through early april. So, the long term goal is to build something that allows the animal(s) choices in the summer (indoor or outdoors) and allows us to contain them in the off season.

First things first though. I'm thinking about using a watering trough as the base of an indoor cage for the little one. It's 2 by 4, and about 3 feet deep, so PLENTY of room for dirt. There's also a drain on it, so I'm hoping I can figure out a way to hook up a water supply with a drain, to THAT drain, to make cleaning that much easier. Is that TOO big though? It would definitely give me the ability to give the animal the proper tempature ranges, but what about monitoring it's food intake?

Troughs are great for varanids, for a whole bunch of reasons. A very good start.

Is this what you had in mind? Troughs are perfect for this setup.

We also have indoor outdoor cages, as well as outdoor cages.

My experience is, unless it hits 100F outside, its of no value to have them outside. Of course, that may be different in your area. I wouldn't know.

That is just my rule for me here.

Also I think you will learn more inside, Once you understand them inside, it makes outside or indoor outdoor much easier.

To breed them, indoors is a million times better. unlike crocs, varanids are deep nesters and hide their eggs very well. At times they are easy to find, at others impossible. You will get more hatchlings inside, more eggs outside. Take your pick.

Good luck

Psss... I lost interest in Varanids because it was so damn easy. I had sick and very emaciated Sav once that I was nursing back to health, and it was the easiest reptiles to nurse back. I know someone who had watetr for almost 30 years. I kid you not! I see him sometime feed it hot dogs, and I saw some kid fed his black throat hot dogs every now and then and it was fine...growing really fast. Not that I advocate feeding varanids or any other reptiles hot dogs. I've seen someone fed his pet alligator a hot dog once. That thing bloated up like a balloon and wouldn't eat for a while. He had to take it to a vet. You think crocodilian are tough, monitors are like garbage disposals...they can eat door knobs and poop it out.

Hi again paradon, many thanks for your reply!
You forgot to say how long (in years) you kept the Savannah monitor alive, and do you have a couple of pics of the animal and the set-up you can show?
I`m very surprised you lost interest after keeping just the one animal, which part of their care and of the monitor itself did you find the most boring?
Thanks for being honest!?

Why don't you read my post again to find the answer?

Well paradon, I`m not sure reading your post again will make any more sense than it did the first time I read it??
By the way, absolutely no doubt that "Proexotics" follow Frank Retes` advise on the care of captive varanids to a very great extent....
I think you`re just here to deliberately cause as much confusion and unnecessary suffering as possible to these beautiful animals?????
(Just my personal opinion).... Thanks.

Thank you for showing your true colors.

All I ask is, why do you want to cause harm to reptiles, easy or not? that is a good question.

You seem bent on giving poor, naive, harmful information.

You do understand, what gets hurt is the monitors.

Does that make you happy?

Please understand, there are many places to go and fool around with people, please pick on where innocent animals are not victumized by your need for attention. Thank you

I don't need attention from hicks, or whatever you are...

I was not lying...that happens to be true. I don't know why you get so pissed off that there are other great keepers out there better than you...including Proexotics. AFter all we don't really know if what we knows are really true for sure, or maybe it's partially true. Nothing certain in this universe. However,there is one constant truth in the universe and that is: you brain is made of POOP! Hahahaa!

We are not talking about anybody but YOU. Its not pro exotics advice or my advice that is in question here, its yours thats the problem.

Robyn and Chad are great folks, its you sir thats giving poor advice.

Your silly games are only causing harm. Good for you, or thats all it could cause is anyone actually followed your advice.

It is fun to see you dig yourself deeper and deeper, hopefully you could learn from this, naw, that ain't going to happen.

I have know idea what your problem is, perhaps you are a bored 14 year old with nothing better to do now that school is out, I don't know.
I'm not going to get into a pi'ng contest with about animals I have kept and how "difficult" they are. But I do have to admit that it is sad you find monitors so boring and yet feel the need to come on here and try to belittle others who obviously have more experience than you and the one savanah you once kept (and likely killed, given your poor advice.).
Quite honestly I have kept lots of herps over the years some difficult some not so much. I have kept water monitors for almost 20yrs now and find them just as fascinating now as I did when I first got into keeping monitors. I do not find them difficult to keep as long as their conditions are right and you learn how to read their behavior properly.
I have both failed at times and had fairly good success at times I have shared both experiences on here. I think Frank's advice is excellent and his track record speaks for itself. I wise person would listen to what he has to say and to what others have to say and consider what they have done and see if you can apply it to what you are doing with your own animals. Not all the advice on here from him or others may necessarily be useful to you but to think about it and see if it is will make you a better keeper in the long run and help your animals out in the end which is really important here.
The bottom line is you really need to look at your own flawed husbandry which is very flawed before you go on criticizing others who obviously have much more experience and success than you.

>>Psss... I lost interest in Varanids because it was so damn easy.

After what degree of success & long term experience and with what species, did you loose interest?
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Mike Heinrich,
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
www.amazontreeboa.org
www.amazon-alliance.com

Pretty much, June through August where I'm at, it'll be high 90's to 100 everyday, with humidity around 75-90%. But, you make an interesting point with the more eggs vs. more hatchlings thought...I'll probably start with the indoor enclosure first, and then work up to a point where I feel comfortable possibly expanding to an outdoor component. Again, that's why I'm trying to ask all these questions NOW, as opposed to the normal, "Hey, I just bought a nile monitor for $20, and it's in a 10 gallon tank, now what?" Thanks for the replies. When I start construction on the trough cage, I'll post pics as I go and hopefully get some help along the way.

To wlcmmtt: You`re getting some great advice from the people that truly know how to do it. I just want to say how good it is to have someone asking questions long BEFORE getting the animal, I wish you all the best!

I should probably also ask this question...through reading other posts, I know that you (FR) are a fan of rodent based diets. Now, that's not a problem, as I produce several thousand rats and mice a month. But, Live? Frozen? Place the smaller prey items in a bowl or something so I can tell whether or not they've been eaten? (By smaller, I mean things like fuzzies and crawlers) Tong feed? Any suggestions/ideas would be great. I'm sure different things work better for different people, but I'd like to get a variety of ideas.

Hi wlcmmtt,
you wanted a variety of answers, so here`s what I normally do; at the moment, I`m living in the U.K (from Australia), and feeding live prey is against the law here, so I don`t (obviously, insects can be fed live). Rodents etc are fed either f/k or f/t. I too use a rodent based diet, but do also offer other whole prey items (fish, chicks etc).
I advise ALWAYS using tongs (for your safety), they are so food oriented, accidents WILL happen if you feed from your hand.
Even a young niloticus can give a decent bite, and the large adults could possibly break a finger or two, if they got a good grip.
I`ve been caught a couple of times in the past by my 7.5 ft Ornate monitor (quite unintentionally on his part), so he quickly let go, and it was just the tip of his mouth, but still enough to demonstrate the power he had.

I am first a fan of whole prey items, whethers its birds, fish, rodents, insects, etc. Whole, not part, like turkey or any meat.

I like you, breed mice, and at times crickets. I have lots of experience with those two items and very successfully, So thats what I state. I would not be right if I assumed other items worked well, If I did not use them. So again mice is what I have experience with.

Many years ago, I used all manner of foot items, including turkey, What has consistantly worked the best is what I mentioned.

Its kinda like this, I used lots of different items, I would take one out and see what happens. The ones that mattered were, mice(rodents) and crickets. Take them away and progress dropped.

What seems to really make a difference is, amount and how dependable the source is. that is with whole prey items.

Such things as superworms and roaches, became just a pain in the butt for the keeper. And did not show any actual advantage.

As in, they were not bad, just not good or handy.

Hello
Here's an idea for your enclosure.
Mike

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Mike's Monitors!

Hi paradon, I don`t know you, but I`ve seen many of your responses, I must say, in my view, you do much to help the newcomers destroy these beautiful animals... Your advise is clearly NOT based on personal experience. This forum and others like it are supposed to HELP others care for their captive varanids in the most productive (successful), way...
I notice you mention you saved the life of a Savannah monitor, may I ask where the animal is now, and how many years experience you have keeping any species of monitor which would indicate you had some knowledge on the subject? Absolutely no disrespect intended, just VERY curious! Thanks.

Completely agree on enclosure size...

Sorry, I should mention; I agree with Calparsoni on cage size, NOT paradon!!!