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Golden corn eggs!

BlueKing May 27, 2011 12:25 PM

Well, here it is:
I have three female adult hets, (had four, but lost one adult het last year due to egg binding), the original Golden corn female, and a pair of subadult Golden corns.
Out of three Het pairings, plus one pairing with two actual Golden corns, and the original Golden corn female, I got 18 eggs total. Six appear to be slugs.
The Golden corn pairing produced ONE good egg...But that's not bad, as these two golden corns were barely big enough to breed anyway (and I expected no eggs).
The three hets produced 8,5,4 eggs each, respectively. The female that laid the eight eggs had the most slugs: 4. The female that laid 5 eggs had two slugs. (All this info according to my son - I will verify when I return back to the states in early June). And the incubators are working great so far, according to my wife. (No more AC failures!!!!!)
The sad news is that I don't think that the original Golden corn female (found in 04' as an adult), will lay any eggs this year. She had always been a good eater until this year. My son said she looks a little skinny and that this year she only eats about three-four mice once a month, and regurgitates all the others when my son attempts to feed her once a week... She looks old and weak and probably is, as I have no idea of her true age, since she was found in the wild as an adult, back in 04'......
And since I have to return back to Afghanistan after my two week stay in June, I may need some help from (one of you), in the fall with some problem (Golden corn) feeders. My son will no longer be around then and my wife is too scared to force feed ANYTHING, lol!
I will try to post some new pics next month when I'm home!
Meanwhile: Here's a pic of the Original Golden corn in her prime (back in 04').

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Replies (14)

DMong May 27, 2011 01:23 PM

That's awesome that you have some "golden eggs" this season Zee!

On the off-chance this ISN'T due to old age, might I suggest someone give your original female a dose of Flagyl(metronidazole) on the very good chance she has some intestinal bacteria issues going on. You have nothing to lose by doing this, and absolutely EVERYTHING to gain. If someone can administer this at 50 mg/per kg. of body weight mixed with just a tad of water, this could very well bring her back to 100%.

Here are several posts to others I have made over the years regarding this very same issue, and slightly different situations, but all have major portions of the text that will deffinitely apply well to your snake. If it is followed to the letter, it could very well save your beautiful original Golden Corn if this isn't simply due to old age. Many people in the past have told me I no doubt saved their snake's lives with this information. One person just recently as a matter of fact that had a young alterna that was DEFINITELY on it's way out and was regurging every meal regardless of size. He later did as I suggested and a couple months later emailed me and said the snake was about 3 times the weight it was and POUNDING big rat pinks!, and growing like a WEED!!.

best of luck over there my friend, and with the eggs and snake as well!

~Doug

Posts on Flagyl Administration

50mg/per kg. of body weight portion of a 250mg. pill is 1/16th for a 300 gram snake.

First,….DO NOT attempt to feed it more meals until it has been looked at, I strongly suspect it has some nasty intestinal bacteria from the putrid previous meals. I would imagine a two-dose regimen of Flagyl(metronidazole) could EASILY be all that is needed here. This will kill the bad protazoa/pathogens as WELL as the GOOD bacteria that is needed for proper digestion, so STOP offering it any food until the snake has been looked at and helped. Feeding at this point will only lead to more regurges and a DEFINITE downward spiral that could easily end up killing it. Offering food at this point is the WORST thing you could do right now until you takle the intestinal problem.

Hopefully the vet will know the proper course of action, but MANY vets don't know diddly squat about reptile medicine whatsoever. The snake should get a dose of of Flagyl at the rate of 50 mg./per kg. of body weight given orally, and another follow-up dose 10 to 14 days later. NO FOOD should be offered until at LEAST a good week or so AFTER the last dose so the snake can replenish it's vital acids, electrolytes, enzymes and gut flora before being fed again. And when it IS fed again, they should be very small meals for a while to make certain they stay down and are digested properly, you cannot afford for this to happen any more whatsoever.

After several VERY small meals, you could GRADUALLY increase the size back to the size prey it was normally eating, just make sure you never offer these gigantic meals again, that is of no benefit at all, and usually only makes it tough on the snake's system as you have already found out.

Sometimes snakes develop this from fouled water too, so who knows, but I would bet a dollar to a donut some Flagyl at the proper dosing will take care of this. Flagyl is very reptile friendly too!

good luck!

~Doug

Post #2 on regurgitation

I strongly suspect it has some bad intestinal bacteria and the meal simply putrified instead of being digested. This can be caused by a number of things, fouled water being among the top causes.

Tell her to get it dosed with Flagyl(Metronidazole) at a dose of 50 mg/kg of body weight, and another follow-up dose in ten days. DO NOT attempt any more feedings until at least a week after the LAST dose, as this kills the bad bacteria, AND the good bacteria needed for proper digestion.

I have done this myself with several animals in the past. Many years ago one of my young Honduran milks had an intestinal bacteria problem, and would regurge even a VERY small meal. Dosed with Flagyl, and problem immmediately GONE!.....forever!!

good luck, ~Doug

Post #3

In addition to what Tim has said,..it could have easily drank some fouled water in the previous owner's care that lead to it getting undesireable pathogens in it's intestinal tract.

If it is kept in the mid to upper 80's on one end ONLY of it's small enclosure so it can thermoregulate, this should have been fine to enable it to properly digest it's meals. It is NEVER a good thing when snakes continue to regurgitate,..especially a tiny hatchling. This can take a heavy toll, and lead to it's death very quickly if not taken care of ASAP!. If it does not hold down a VERY TINY meal next time when fed(wait 10-14 days before doing so!), then I would strongly suspect the problem to be bad microbial pathogens in the gut, and it needs to have a dose of Flagyl(Metronidazole) administered at 50 mg.per kg. of body weight, then another follow-up does of the same about 10 days or so after the intial one is given to kill the bad pathogens. If this is done...DO NOT attempt to feed it AT ALL during this time, as the medication will kill both bad AND good flora in the gut that it needs to properly digest. You must wait approx.7 days AFTER the last dose is given so the snake's stomach can get re-gain the acids, enzymes, electrolytes, and good bacteria needed to digest, or you will simply start the ugly cycle all over again.

If it does not hold down it's next VERY tiny meal when given in two weeks, the snake will very likely be dead without the proper dosing of the Flagyl. This stuff works wonders when applied to the correct circumstances, and these could EASILY be one of them. I have administered Flagyl to snakes that have had this problem before in the past, and it works like magic!! Several years ago, I had a 300 gram Honduran start regurging meals, and did it again no matter how small the mice were. After I gave it the proper dosing of Flagyl,....BAM!, problem gone FOREVER!

hope the little snake gets better, because it's life all depends on what you do here,...simple as that.

good luck!, ~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

markg May 27, 2011 01:36 PM

Good call, Doug.

I think we all think corns are bulletproof. As you know, they can have problems too with stress and such, enabling bad bacteria to get out of control. I would take your advice for sure.
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Mark

DMong May 27, 2011 03:27 PM

Glad this makes good sense to you Mark. Flagyl can definitely work absolute WONDERS for the correct ailment(s)if given in time. I just acquired some tiny hatchlings that were extremely thin, and a couple regurged very tiny single meals. I didn't play games with this, and immediately administered the appropriate amount of Flagyl to these snakes, and they have been doing KILLER ever since then, and now pound down two nice-sized pinks at a time with ZERO issues!

Luckily it is quite rare that I need to use it, but when it IS needed and given in the proper dosage for intestinal bacteria issues, it can literally work like magic!

cheers, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

a153fish May 28, 2011 10:39 AM

Flagyl, and Panicur are always worth trying on snakes that are regurging. They are both very forgiving too, so there is very little chance of over dosing, unless you really get carried away.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

BlueKing May 28, 2011 11:23 AM

Just wondering....
Where's the best place or places to buy Flagyl these days??? Maybe the Feed/livestock store???
THANKS in advance!
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

a153fish May 28, 2011 11:40 AM

Check your email, I sent you a link, and some info. Doug may have some info too.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

BlueKing May 27, 2011 03:07 PM

Thanks.
You may be right on the bad bacteria issue....
I will give this a try when I get home in about a week and a half....It definitely won't hurt to try.
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

DMong May 27, 2011 03:16 PM

Good deal Zee!

If she is still regurging, I would tell your son NOT to feed her anything at ALL until you can get home and do this, as the effects of repeated regurging only compound the issue further and poisons their systems that much more with putrified bacteria every time they do so.

Best of luck bro!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

BlueKing May 29, 2011 01:32 PM

N/m
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

cochran May 27, 2011 06:06 PM

Zee, it is good to hear you have hets. and little goldens to carry on!!Doug may be on to something with the flagyl idea!If I can help you in any way,I'd be glad to as long as I'm allowed to take and post lots of pics!!Lol! Take care! Jeff

BlueKing May 28, 2011 11:09 AM

Thank you Jeff!
If you DO end up helping.....I will let you post ALL THE PICS YOU WANT!!! It is the LEAST I can do, believe me!
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

a153fish May 28, 2011 10:41 AM

Zee, I've gotten really good at getting stuborn baby corns to eat. if I can help out just let me know? Worse come to worse I can force feed, but only as a last resort!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

BlueKing May 28, 2011 11:18 AM

Thank you.
With the few golden corns I DO have and the slow progress of this project, I wouldn't mind if all of them (picky feeders), needed to be force-fed....I just don't want to lose ANY MORE!!! And I would supply all the pinkies (and then some) you need!!!
I know in the past I've had a lot of success turning stubborn feeders into "normal" snakes by gentle force feeding... But that's hard to do, since I will be in Afghanistan for most of this year and possibly next year....
Once again...a sincere "THANK YOU!"
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

a153fish May 28, 2011 11:23 AM

I have some locally collected corns that I am developing, and many of their babies, need extra help to get them to eat. Wether it's scenting, or tease feeding or force feeding, most can be saved. There's always one or two that just have a death wish it seems.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

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