Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just browsing the hognose classifieds...seeing a trend with the ads for the trickier species like southerns and easterns. The seller making some holier-than-thou statement like, "The snake is eating toads because I don't believe in the practice of 'tricking' it into eating something different."

But a load of BS. Funny how I don't see that baloney being spewed on ads with western hognose, which if I recall, are also natural amphibian eaters. In fact, I don't think any snake on the planet naturally eats white laboratory mice.....and yet...hmm...

Personally, I think this is just a lame excuse to not even attempt to convert the hog to a rodent diet, and still charge a high price. I know people have the right to price an animal however they please, but its the principle. I'm calling it how I see it, and what I see is hypocrisy. If you don't feel up to the challenge to converting its diet, just say so and advertise it as a toad-eater. Don't put yourself on some hollow pedestal just because you're lazy.

If most keepers were to employ this high-and-mighty mentality, then we would:

- feed small primates to our boa constrictors & burmese pythons
- feed fruit bats to our carpet pythons
- feed parakeets & lorikeets to our green tree pythons
- feed anoles & ground skinks to our baby cornsnakes & kingsnakes

....and I could go on.

I can understand trying to replicate the animal's natural diet as closely as possible. But when it comes to keeping snakes longterm in captivity, sooner or later you're going to have to make some compromises or get rid of the animal.

On the issue of hognoses specifically...while not natural, converting to a rodent diet is not unhealthy; its feeding them too LARGE a mouse and/or too often than can be detrimental. The prey item itself is not the issue. One just has to adjust the quantity/frequency of the feedings...after all, if rodent diets with hognoses was such a problem, why do we do for westerns?

Trying to keep a steady supply of toads seems like more work to me than ordering some F/T online. Not sure how keeping snakes on a non rodent diet is lazy?

Not having a steady supply of toads would depend on where you are in the US... If you live in an area that has a population of Southern hogs would most likely have a large toads/amphibians...
I would say it would be easier and cheaper to go catch some food than it would to order FT rodents... I know where I live I can go out for a half hour and come home with 50 or so toadlets if I needed them...

I think what the OP is saying is that the seller is asking top dollar for a wild caught Southern hog that has not been worked with or took the time to make it more keeper friendly... That may be where the "lazy" comment originated...

In my opinion, it does not matter either way because the eller is being honest about the feeding habbits... However, I would not pay top dollar for an animal that needs work...

You got it, Gregg. My main point was selling a WC animal that needs work for top dollar.

I kinda already touched the diet aspect of it. If its a health issue the seller is worried about, they need to do a little more research. Its not a rodent diet that can lead to health issues (specifically, fatty liver disease). It's a "too-much" rodent diet that can lead to those issues.

I can certainly understand the economics of going out and wanting to feed your snake free food from your backyard (so to speak). But this is the pet hobby, and I think we (all of us) have a responsibility to offer animals that are eating conventionally, or sell it for less. It's like anything else. Whether its a BP or a green tree python, you take the time to make sure its eating well on its own. Or you sell it "as is" as a non-feeder for less.

I think the hognose crowd (especially these cowboys that are selling WC easterns and southerns) need to get off their high horse and realize that. Put in a little time and effort to get that snake eating mice, and then maybe it'll be worth that 3-digit price tag they slap on it. Until then, it's just a frog-eating snake I can go catch myself.

Personally, I just thought it was a little "holier-than-thou" approach as well, when the vast majority of snakes in captivity are rarely offered their natural prey. [see my last post]

do any of you know anyone thats had longterm success working with the simus? The western craze going off like it has the last few years....Just curious why you dont see the simus doing the same thing. IMO the simus are the coolest looking....It really irks me to see wild caughts on here occasionally They are a rarity and have been whiped out all together in a few states yet you will see ads for wc. just my thoughts.

Simus have started out in much shorter supply than Westerns, and they just aren't as popular or as easy to work with.

The populations of simus that have declined or disappeared were lost due to habitat mismanagement, not collection. In the areas where simus are collected, they are very abundant, and they are killed on the road by the thousands every year. The number collected is infinitesimal by comparison.

Also in some states where they are historically native to, they are protected. At least this is the case in Alabama. So this also decreases the already small market demand for them.

It is the same case for easterns, but not quite as much.

And of course, their aforementioned reluctance to convert to conventional prey items is also a factor.

Who is currently studying the Simus species to come up with the numbers lost to roads.....thousands really....No Way.....I wanna see the report....

How much actual experience with this species in the wild do you have?