Reptile & Amphibian Forums

...Was wondering how he/she is doing?

Thank you for asking. My last post I asked what should the humidity leels be for a baby sumatran because I was told babies get sick if kept with high humidity. Wanted some info from the vets like Frank who seem knowledgeable here.

But yea, my monitor has since stopped making noise and gasping for breath, I have him in a 80 gallon tank with 75% of the top covered with plexiglass. Hasnt refused a meal yet but is very shy and always hiding until I'm out of the room.

Hi again, good to hear the monitor seems to be doing better now! You asked about the humidity level, both Calparsoni and myself gave our advise (of course, you choose who you want to listen to), but if what you were told elsewhere were true, I`d like to know how they survive in the VERY humid locations they are born into?? (Not sarcasm), I just don`t understand where some people out there get their info?? CLEARLY, they have no knowledge.
Once again; a humidity level between approx 60% up to 80% or so is FINE, it might get a little lower around the basking area, but that`s inevitable (and o.k). If you`re interested, take a look a a few pics and vids of my V. salvator on youtube.... "ornatusvaranid" is my username...
I hope that helps!

(not Sarcasm either) but I guess Prehistoric pets and their several large monitors just survive better without humidity? Because that's what I was told by them. But then again I haven't heard from them after I told them I'm gunna keep the monitor.

Im not trying to get into an this argument so dont take it that way please. But I have seen videos of several large waters they keep in the back in the same 8ft cages they keep their retics in. Horrible caging for monitors, especially ones that are 6 or 7 foot. I know that they keep some of their monitors better, the ones on display. I am not saying they are wrong as they know way more than I do. Just stating what ive seen.

Hi,

There is a lot of varying information out there.. you will maybe come to see this more if you explore for it. In other words, you will get a lot of conflicting info. There are a lot of flaws in how this information comes about.. this has been discussed just recently. However, you are in a good place for information and the insight you will receive here is really priceless. But, even here you may receive not so hot advice.. depending on the source. Nonetheless, Frank (FR) has showed us that the same general husbandry methods works across the board for all monitors. As a little side note to you: he is not a vet .. as you thought.. however, you are asking the right person for advice.

I was wondering how your little guy/girl was doing. I will say that it seems you have done a relatively good job considering what you were given. So, good for you and your monitor. This doesn't mean you are out of the "danger-zone" and hopefully, you do a little more exploring here.. tweeking your husbandry as you go a long.

Just remember to observe your lizard.. keep watch on him/her, how he responds, behaves, etc. Frank has said this many times.. the animal knows best. This is really true. But, most animal people should know this. The animals will tell you what's up.. we just have to pay attention and learn.

Not sure you mentioned this, and if so, if I read it: what are you feeding?

With regard to the humidity- besides the conflicting info you've found (and you'll find it regarding other things too).. you have to remember that too much is too much, too little is too little.. and there are always a million (exaggeration) other factors to consider. High humidity and low heat.. too high of heat and too high of humidity.. so on and so forth. What I am saying is.. is that it is always possible that those who attributed high humidity to ill health may have lapsed on other key supportive factors.

We seem to forget the mechanics of our "cages". Options are the key.. and keeping things within perspective ranges.. the ranges that allow progressive growth.

Again, listen to your lizard.. watch and observe.

Hope it's helpful.

So far I have kept his enclosure pretty much dry except for the inital moist substrate(soil mix) He seems to be fine I can't really tell nowadays because he doesnt even come out and bask. He's hiding in his hide spot(retes stack) all the day at the bottom until nighttime when I turn off his light and turn on the CHE. I know this because in the morning his food is gone and the water is defecated in.

I will try one thing though if all else fails I will mist his cage every other day to see how he reacts.

Hi again.

It sounds like you are not keeping it humid enough, actually. I tried to explain in the previous post that people falsely attribute ill health to too much of this, too little of that.. it was the humidity or the diet or whatever. The reality is.. it is an interplay of everything. Areas of high humidity or, humidity within reasonable ranges is desirable, however it must be coupled with a good functioning cage.. with proper heat, choices, etc. It is a functional, operating cage that counts. One of the most important facets to keeping these guys is understanding them. They can only work with what you give them. In some ways, it is kind of sad. They really do their darndest considering what they're given.

Your lizard seems to be telling you something is in need of change. The not basking is not normal. Now, they will bask without your presence.. but on the basis of what you said- it seems you are observing the cage all throughout the day.

Have you posted any pictures of your setup? How deep is your substrate? I should mention that your ventilation is too much.. you need to narrow it down. You've got about 25% of the enclosure top left open.. that is going to affect the inner dynamics big time. This will help with the humidity. Keep in mind, you, the keeper, have the capacity to tweek all of these things. Not to throw anyone off.. just because a cage is entirely closed on the top doesn't guarantee higher levels of humidity either.. you have to support that process too with a water source and deep substrate. I hope you understand this and I hope when others read this they get what I am saying.

We have learned, too, that the routine misting part isn't necessary when you have the right enclosure going. It is almost like a band-aid.. you know, like the cage is going astray.. let me mist it. This is not indicative of a well functional enclosure. Misting as a means of tweeking things a bit is different.

With regard to the ceramic heating element.. we do not use those here, and we just haven't found a use for them with monitors.

Be sure you re-check things when you make a change. This is all a part of tweeking, and when you do- you will change the dynamic of the cage.

I hope.. through this.. you start to enjoy your experience as a keeper.

His substrate is a bout 2 inches deep. So you are saying cover 100% of the cage as 25% opening is too much? Just give it to me man, let me know what I need to do so I can do it. Here's a pic of his enclosure. Criticism is welcome.

Yes, cover more of the cage.. 25% not covered is way too much. And actually, from the picture, it looks like almost 50% or so is uncovered.. not sure though it is a small image. You want a vent.. not a measureable percentage of the cage open. Here, for our indoor enclosures, we cover the top completely and offer ventiliation. This is not --the absolute way-- to do it either.. as many approaches may work. And, you may not have to cover it wholly- but pretty close, this is something you will have to play with. You will want the ventilation away from the basking area. The problem is: there is no "cookie-cutter" method to this. You can achieve the same humidity various ways.

You do not want a wet enclosure. You do not want to spray or mist everything down. Humidity does not equate to wetness. You can achieve a humid environment without wetting everything down.. or misting like so many do. It is also about leaving options and a wet cage certainly does not.. the options are hard to achieve in a small enclosure.

As a keeper, you have to learn to observe your animals and their response to things- changes or cages or whatever. This does not always mean you have to be changing all of the time.

When you make a change to any cage, the dynamics of it will change too.. so, you will have to observe what happens.. and then tweek as needed. Behavior will change as the dynamics of the cage changes. Sometimes, you have to leave things alone and simply observe what happens. The no basking (if this truly is occurring) is not a positive indication in this specific incidence.. your cage.

As for the picture.. the substrate does not --appear-- very deep at all. It should be made deeper and with real, actual soil. The soil will naturally hold moisture and offer options and will change the inner dynamics. I can't even tell what the substrate is.. cork or something? Don't need that. Have you measured your basking temp recently? As you get the light closer to the basking surface.. you will increase the temp, so this may be beneficial to do.. but you should measure what you've got going right now. Where does the monitor spend his time? What does he/she consider his/her security (or does he) in that cage?

The reality is, is that there are a lot of possible scenarios and what if's or the basking site isn't good or he won't use this because of that. Just make the obvious changes that need to be done.. and go from there. To keep it simple: bump up the humidity, close the top off and have some type of ventilation, re-measure your temps, add a deeper soil-based substrate and start with that. The animal's behavior will tell you.

You may need to adjust the basking site and make sure there is a secure burrow-type area that will be used and will work for him/her. Although something may APPEAR off to us- like the basking area doesn't LOOK all to functional or optimum.. it really does not matter. What matters is what your monitor will use or make use of. So, again, the very best advice I can give is to listen to him/her, and make these common changes and see what happens.

Hope it is helpful to you.

I feel I should also point out that the holes in the stack might not be very helpful. As ree pointed out, you can have a humid cage without misting and being wet. Humid as in, minimal or no air flow. This is an idea that I've had a hard time dealing with myself, and had to have some experienced guys beat into my head, that humid does not equal wet. So the solid top will minimize air flow making it more humid in the cage, well the stack should do the same thing. Minimal air flow in the stack means more humidity the further from the light. But with the holes in it, it is just like a screen top on your cage. Lets all the humidity right out of the lower levels.

Just my two cents.

Mike

ok, so if I cover the whole top how am I supposed to have a light in there? I got the substrate part, more deeper. But trying to figure out a way to put a light in there without the possibility of the guy burning himself or a fire hazard is getting to me.

you can go to home depot, buy some 14 or 12 gauge wire, a octagon fixture box, a ceramic light fixture, a switch if you want, and a plug. Wire that bad boy up and mount it inside the cage. As long as the monitor doesn't come in direct contact, burning isn't usually an issue, though I've heard some species are more susceptible to burns. But I mount the lights inside the cage for my peachies and ackies, and no problems so far.

Mike

got a picture of the setup? because I have no idea how im gunna do it in my 80 gallon tank.

There are a lot of ways you can do it. Why do perceive the tank's size as an issue? This doesn't matter, really.

We've done it many ways. Usually, we cut a circular hole in the top- at the far side of the designated basking area. The fixture sits tight in the hole- and the light consequently, goes into the fixture, but inside the cage. We typically caulk around the fixture so it is tighter and more secure. This is just one way.

Best thing for you is to choose one solid top and fit it (wood, for example) and use this. This won't cost you that much.

You should try to limit the amount of captures you do- unless they are necessary. And also, the enclosure changes. Find something that works and is useful and stick with it and in your case- until the growth deems a larger cage. The moving around, capturing and all that sort will cause the animal to retreat away from you.

Hope it helps.

Forgot to mention: the pic you posted is not an 80 gal.. so, did you post the wrong picture?

It was supposedly an 80 gal tank when I bought it off craigslist... I dunno. THe picture looks a bit small? or maybe its 50 something I have no idea, but it certainly is big enuff for it to last 1-2 years in thats for sure. I will do as you guys recommended but I am so paranoid of him burning himself as I see so many monitors on the classifieds with burns. ANd the wood and fixture thing has got me a bit uneasy too for fire safety reasons. But anyway, why do you say you guys dont use CHE's? It keeps the temps up at night and I try to give him the more natural 12 hrs on and 12 hours off routine. It also helps me fall asleep too as I am sensitive to the light at night but the temps are the same at basking light or not at 130-140

Hi, yes you can use a CHE (or infrared bulb), if you need to keep the night temps up (ambient). I`m living in the U.K just now, it gets very cold here at times.
I really have no idea why "ree" states "WE"?? don`t use them? It would be much too expensive (for me), leaving the central heating on all through the night to keep the ambient temps in the enclosure at a suitable level. You use whatever`s needed and gives the required results!

There you go again. You love taking things out of context. But, you will not see it- so I'd rather not try and explain it.

"WE" does not mean you and me, me and this forum, or the like. We is Mike and I. Mike, being lizardhead from the other forum (varanus.net)- that you frequent. So, the assumptive approach didn't work out for you.

Also, you are one of those who likes to take things out of context. As in, I commented that we do not use those here and have not found them necessary. It is common sense that if the ambient room temp is very cold that you would offer a consistent heat source. We were not talking about it being too cool in the room and having to leave a heater on. Let's get real here. I also did not imply that he should not offer heat at night. We all know that was not the topic or the CONTEXT. You like to distort advice offered as though I made further implications that are nonsense.

I also did not say anything about day/night cycles (you did not mention), 24 hr heat, or the like. This was not the direct topic. I did not suggest leaving the cage without heat.. again, your assumptive, quick to draw approach. For that matter, most of our enclosures offer 24 hr heat. We keep our tortoises, turtles, cyclura, snakes and monitors, etc. one in the same- in all various sizes/enclosures. We have learned too that the husbandry Frank has taught us works very well for everything we keep here.

It baffles me that nobody here has questioned your motive. Or perhaps they have but have not come to say it.

And I am not sure what your implication was, but a ceramic heating element is not an infrared bulb. You said "OR", so I am not sure that this was suggesting that they are one in the same.

Nonetheless, back to the real topic: monitors.. not you.

It is hard to appreciate your input when you consistently take stabs and distort things.. a misjudgement, for example. Especially, when I take the time I have out of my day to try and offer help to others so they are better able to help their monitor(s).

If you return to the top of this thread.. I came back to ask Nyczvegeta85 about his --monitor--... after 2 weeks of no consideration as to how this monitor was actually making out.. you know- the one that was very ill. And, not to engage in a bicker fest and a redundancy of how he should have the money for this or the money for that- one that had little "meat" relative to actually helping this animal out in that present time.

Nonetheless, Murrindini, before you go replying to "puff" yourself up, you should reconsider your stabs.

I replied to this in your other post, but again, you misjudge me (badly)!
I too take time out from my quite busy schedule to (hopefully) help other less experienced keepers, in a relatively minor way.
We offer our advise, if we`re lucky, maybe "they" listen, most times, not... (Sigh)..
So clearly, we have something in common, that`s a start, at least!!! If they had "smilies" on this website, I`d put one here (with a smile/wink)!

Makes sense. We don't always get the jist of everything through text alone. And yes, we do both want to help others help their monitors.

Also.. back on topic.. I think Calparsoni made a good point- and I agree that an upgrade to a custom cage with plexi top would be ideal.

Hi Mike`s (brother)?
Can you please read my reply again and tell me where I`m being assumptive or "taking a stab"?
You clearly did NOT give a reason for saying why the poster shouldn`t use a CHE, so I responded with my own reasons for using them, and suggested if he/she had the same probem I do, it would be perfectly acceptable to use one himself.
Do you know me well enough to give an opinion of what I mean when I say something that I feel might be at least of a little help? (NO, that`s not a stab either, just a question), I think you`ve definitely misunderstood me!!
Personally, I think you`ve been giving some great advise on this thread.(Seriously)...
Thanks!

I don't mean to get in the middle, but i think it was a simple misunderstanding. I read it as, we don't use them, not you shouldn't use them. Having said that I can see how you took it as him saying you shouldn't use them. I hate to see all the arguing going on here lately, especially when most is over misunderstandings.

Hi nyczvegeta85,

It certainly doesn't appear to even be close to 50 gal's: compare the lamp size to the tank you'll see.

And no, it is not large enough and especially not for 1-2 years.. unless your monitor is kept under less than ideal conditions. If your monitor is progressing at a good rate, it will quickly outgrow this tank. For the meantime, I was hoping you could make some simple immediate changes to what you have.. what you're working with.. this tank.

Really, the best thing eventually would be to upgrade to a cattle trough base and built-up side and top. This, too when you pool together the resources to do this.

You do have the ability to distance the basking site from the bulb, offering space between the two.. but obviously, do so and make sure the basking temp is still good.

You are again, though, potentially taking improper husbandry and using it as an example. Like, saying too much humidity equals respiratory illness.. when, it is an interplay of a lot of things that counts.

With regard to the CHE's- we do not use them and just have not found it necessary. We, in turn, use 24 hr light. Obviously, this would not work out well for you because you've revealed that you keep him/her in the room you sleep in.

Kindly saying, you really need to try to re-learn your approach and husbandry all over. The tank is not large enough.. and won't be in due time if your monitor's properly kept. There is a lot that needs to be offered to him/her and you have to offer it, so the monitor has the ability to make use of it.

I agree there is no way that tank will last 1-2 years, even if it is a 55gl. Hell even if it was an 80gl. A custom enclosure will be needed several months down the road, I would go ahead and be thinking about it. I would suggest watching craigslist pretty closely. I have found some pretty big enclosures for under 100 bucks. Not ones that will hold a full grown water, but would hold it a good bit longer.

the tank looks like a 55 gallon tank. They are okay to start a water out in with a bit of experience with waters but quite honestly I would look at doing a custom cage rather quickly. Especially considering the airflow issues you are having.
From what I see in your photo I would have a lot more substrate in the tank and personally I use larger water containers for waters even small ones. As long as they can easily get in and more importantly out of it they are fine. There is a reason they are called water monitors.
This tank btw would at best only be good for 4 to 6 months if your water is fed and kept properly and even that is stretching it. a lot of the issues you have could easily be solved by building your own enclosure. There are lots of ways to do that at a relatively low cost if you take the time to look at it from the right point of view. You don't necessarily have to go out and buy a giant stock tank and build a box on it as lots of others do on here. they are just an easy way to start. Quite honestly a simple stock tank with a plexiglass top would be a much better start for you than the tank you are using now.
FYI the first monitor I ever got years ago was a nile. when I first got him a got a 29 gallon long fish tank to put him in. I knew this was a temporary situation and looked at all my options. At the time I had lots of money to burn and could have bought as big of a fish tank as I wanted but knew it would outgrow whatever one I got. So I built a custom cage early on. I did not even own a saw and had limited construction skills at the time but did just fine. That monitor lived over 15 years. I still use that 29 long as a day gecko tank (works better than tall tanks for them btw.) and wonder to this day how I ever managed to keep that nile in it at all.

Thanks for all of your replies and especially for Ree for taking the time to even post a thread like this. It is very easy to misunderstand people on here just reading simple text. Heck, we misunderstand people even when we are face to face with someone. But anyway, I do not plan on keeping the monitor in here when he is growing in ideal conditions, And his stay in this relatively small 55gal(come to find out) tank will be for as long as he manages to fit. I am pleased to say I have funds coming in now and I will probably plan to build him a custom enclosure. But for now, I will listen to you guys and put a plexiglass top with the fixture mounted inside. I will also add about 4 more inches of decomposed granite.