Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok so I bred a bumble bee male to a normal female. I got 11 eggs, they all looked like they were going to go bad but 5 of them made it. 3 of them are all kinked but 2 look ok.
BUT WHAT ARE THEY, one looks like a pied and Im not sure about the other. The "pied" dosent have any kinks that I can see but there all still in the egg. The other one is kinked but I have no idea what it is.

any ideas

Thanks Doug

Wow. Interesting... Got pics of the parents? Unraveling mystery pairings are easier with images of the parents.

Whatever they are, they look like they could be AWESOME
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Lincoln, NE
Ball Pythons - 0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.1 Normals
Kingsnakes - 1.0 L. m. thayeri, 0.1 L. m. thayeri X L. alterna, 1.0 L. g. californiae
Other - 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 1.0 H. nascicus, ?.? Chrysemys picta, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

Heres the parents. the male is in shed now so I added the other pic so you can see the color if that helps

That definitely looks like a Pied and the other no clue. Weird. Sorry for the bad luck, but at least the two that made it aren't normals.Post some pics out of the egg.
Eric

The one definitely looks like a pied. The other could be a bee that hasn't fully developed its color yet. It's too bad they kinked up on you. Did you have incubator issues? I wonder why they are so messed up. It's a pairing you know you have to repeat now....
Let's hope for better results next year. The kinked one has a lot of yolk let. It may have a twisted umbilicus. You can google ways to help it but if it's kinked you are probably going to wanna cull it anyway
Adam Jeffery
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

UUUMMMMMMM A Snake!
lol
cant wait to see it

you cut the eggs too soon, the pigment is the last thing to develope prior to hatching and you can tell they have not developed pigment yet. you cant produce a pied from bee x normal unless they were both hets.
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Evan Stahl Reptiles
www.evanstahl.com

np

He may have cut early but that first pic is definitely a pied.
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John Vandegrift

I've hatched a lot of pieds and that first picture is definitely a pied.

I agree that it looks early . All the normals are ready to come out but the weird looking ones look like they could use another week.
Today is day 55

Not for sure what happened...BUT do post pics once out of the egg...Hope they survive for you either way!

Will do, Thanks

Doug

....55 days is too early if they wanted 65....you just learned that ....

good luck......

....post pic of the normal females' belly? please....

...
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........JY

i disagree that its not a pied. it clearly is a pied. i do agree that it is early, but still a pied. the color develops in a uniform pattern not it splotches. the pattern on the first snake along with the color and white patches clearly indicates pied. the second egg looks WAY underdeveloped and has a ton of yolk left. so i also believe it to be a bee or spider that has not developed its color, because it didnt incubate long enough or at the proper temp.
adam jeffery
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

first one looks pied to me too...second is a bee...both are early....pigment may be the last thing added but it is added in these, just not the whole way yet....

.....either they are both het pieds and you are lucky...or you mixed eggs in a box?....

....how many days were they when you cut....

it's that time of year again....

CUTTING TIME......LOL....Cutty Sark?......

....cut on day 70......

!!!!!
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........JY

i agree with you 100% adam. anyone who thinks that first pic isnt a pied needs to have their eyes checked lol
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles

...I mean I agree with you Adam,

That is clearly a pied. As you stated, the color comes in last and it is uniform, not splotchy like a pied.

Will

The pigment is the last thing to come in, but the pattern is there early. I've successfully candled eggs for Pied pattern at around 40 days and we incubate cooler than most so our eggs often don't pip until 60 days. Somebody that incubates at 90 degrees can probably see Pied pattern by day 35 or so. That sure looks Pied to me.
- Paul

Wait until they come out and shed - could be with incubation issues you've got some kind of a ringer effect happening on that first one.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

nihil facimus sed id bene facimus

I say it's a pied and a spider..We will see in a few days..
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http://ballmorphs.webs.com/

Hector

The first one looks like a Pied, but then both parents had to be Het for Pied (you got lucky there). However, it seems they were cut TOO EARLY..Too much yolk left. Sorry to hear about the kinks!
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Sed et serpens erat callidior cunctis animantibus terrae quae fecerat Dominus Deus...

When I woke up this morning the pied was dead, so I opened the egg and there was only a tiny umbilicus left as you can see in the pic BUT there was another snake and it was a complete mess. I didnt have any incubator problems all my clutches have come out perfect so far so Im not really sure what happened on this one but from day one the eggs looked bad I didnt even expect any of them to make it full term.

twin pieds, that you just got very very unlucky on. id pair the same parents up again next year and see if you get any more
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles

Yeah, that sucks! The silver lining is you have het pieds that you didn't know you had!

yeah I guess next year ill throw the bee male on some pied female and see what I get

Doug

sometimes the clutch will be screwed up due to ...female not eating well enough...all year....or temps....so bump her up and feed the crap out of her....good luck....pieds again next year....???!!!!
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........JY

"Feed the crap out of her"

????
Personally I find that very irresponsible information. A female should be fed at a responsible rate, not at a rate that potentially jeopardizes health and future breeding.

If you ask me, fed the female as you do now. Allow her to recover from the breeding season. If she is of suitable weight and body condition next season, then try to bred her again. IF not, then wait a year. Why destroy a project by power-feeding.

Note that I have said "personally". Everyone is entitled to opinions.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

AGREE 100% POWERFEEDING is not the best thing to do . People pushing them that hard to get weight back for the next season or breeding the females at 18 months just because she is 1500 grms and looks mature enough is to me a sign of greedy people trying to catch up to all the years the other long term breeders have put into all this stuff. Seems sad to me what people do to play catch up or make a buck. What they don't understand is they are costing themselves more than they gain by doing it. Much better to wait till a female is 2 1/2 or older for breeding , you will very likely get a larger clutch from the added size with less chance of laying those small 'chicken egg sized' eggs and hatching out small 45-50 grm babies, and your less likely for slugs from an older female . Plus then by waiting the year longer now she has a decent chance of laying again the next year WITHOUT having to powerfeed the snot out of her to get her back where she needs to be simply because you didn't take as much out of her with her being ALOT more mature and it wasn't nearly as taxing on her as breeding at a young age would be. Like you say it's all an opinion .Even if I could afford to powerfeed my entire collection and breed females young at 2 or under I wouldn't do it, isn't worth it to me. People will still do what they want , it's their snakes but I will say I won't buy from people that think like that either because obviously they don't have the snakes best interest in mind when they breed real young females!

Anthony McCain

,,,,,,,funny guys ,....funny....

feed the crap out of her is a wording...could mean 1 large mouse a week for some of my snakes...

18 month old here just laid 5 huge eggs and a 4 year old laid 4 smaller eggs....it's all in their genes...I have some small and some huge at every age..

the "long term" greedy bigger breeders is where people learned to breed males at 6 months and 300 grams...and females at 850 grams.......bigger = greedier alot too....and they'll lie to you if they like....

it was just wording...

here then ...feed her wisely and breed her in December...good luck.....

wait...I said feed the crap out of her -for the post with the bad eggs? because maybe the female wasn't fed enough? for her taste not ours...maybe....don't know what she ate...

had a female ...8 babies...all with curled tail tips...(not related to any caramel)...just a wild ,huge female...I fed the crap out of her...(which means they will eat alot then stop when they want)....and her next clutch and the few after that were all perfect...so it was food related ...Africa didn't give her enough...OR some dumb person sat her in a cage with no food and water till a big dealer shipped her to an airport near you?...me?..

LOL......anyways....ME- I feed what they want ...never use large rats and alot are just fed 2 mice at a time...I use gerbils, africans ,hamsters, mice ,Peromyscus, and small rats...usually one item per feeding...but I can feed 3 times a week for some snakes....

and they all stop when they want...not when we want...

....I done.....work suxx...had to type out my stresses....LOL

....
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........JY

I would guess the breeder of that bee would love to find out that one of the parents of that snake is actually het for pied.

While it sucks you lost the clutch, both your male and female just increased in value dramatically.

Sorry for the dead twins. I would put the male again next year with a known het pied female and give the female a season off to recover
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Sed et serpens erat callidior cunctis animantibus terrae quae fecerat Dominus Deus...