Reptile & Amphibian Forums

THOUGHTS AND COMMENTS ON IONIDES PLEASE...HOW DO THEY RESPOND TO CAPTIVITY?

THANKS

Hi again NATZOO, are you asking how this species reacts to being held captive (shy, bold etc)? If so, it depends on the individual animal to some extent, but basically, just the same as all other species; The White/Black throated monitor (V.albilularis), under optimum conditions, will be extremely wary and defensive (just as they are in the wild).
With a LOT of hard work, time and patience, you may just have a tractable animal, but there are never any guarantees...
This is a relatively large species, in some cases reaching over 6.5ft (2 metres), so a very large enclosure is needed (as with most v aranids, the bigger the better), they also spend much time in trees, so a very tall cage is required.
Can you offer all that, and are you willing to take one on for the LONG term?
It`s good you`re asking questions before getting the animal!

Hi NatZoo,

That is sort of an odd question.. -how they respond to captivity-. I understand what you're asking. I'm trying to explain why it is off to ask this, but am not sure how to. I guess, partly, your question withheld specifics as to- what do you mean? And also, captivity, isn't broadly the same. One's captivity "offerings" may be very different than another's. This will greatly affect the outcome (animal behavior).

It depends too on the animal you get.. its history.. so forth. Is it a cbb baby (very likely and assumably not).. etc.

Lastly, about that question.. people often want an animal that will co-mingle with them.. become "tame".. so to speak. The reality is.. when the monitors are properly kept.. they are quick and fast to move and respond if they choose. If we *expect* a dosile animal, we are *asking* for them to be less than what they are. When given all of these options (temperature, choices, humidity, etc.) they will and do behave differently, and more of how they should.

A great thing with keeping them, however, is establishing a relationship. This is possible. And really, instead of it being a forced venture.. or a relationship determined by not offering the best support.. it becomes a lot richer and fuller this way- if they are supported. If you have a monitor, heated properly, functioning at an optimum, that accepts you kindly.. your presence- that is a great thing.. (for us.. of course ). There are so many variations in the animal's themself.. some will be more willing to take to you, so to speak. But, first offer what is best for them and then go from there. They will learn you. They will accept and adjust to you however they may.. and like I said, some will do it different than others. You may always have a monitor that is spunky with you.. if so, let him/her be that way. You'll find too that the same exact monitor will respond differently to another person (good or bad- if you want to call it that).

Point is: offer what is best (temps, choices, space, so forth) and the learned acceptance of your presence and if it so happens- a relationship- will follow.

I know this seems like such a complex answer to such a simple question. But it really isn't. You probably were expecting something more straight-forward.

Frank seems to really like ackies. You may want to look into these.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I read the question "how they respond to captivity?" as asking if they do better or worse than they would in the wild (when kept under optimal conditions). I see it as a good question; some animals do much better in captivity then in the wild due to not having the dangers of disease (using Vets) and predators. Some animals on the other hand no matter how well they are kept have a shortened life span in captivity due to the stress of being in a smaller habitat or not getting the same foods as they would in the wild or what not. In this case Again correct me if I’m wrong most monitors have a captive life span that is on level with if not longer than it would be for an animal in the wild (again under correct conditions, I know that a lot of this lizards don’t survive the first year but those are not the correct conditions to support life).

Hi All-thanks for those replies.

What I'm trying to do is find out what monitor spec. is the best overall choice (other than Ackies) for me. I like Ackies just fine; I'm trying to broadin the dicussion.
Pro Exotics makes great claims about their Blackthroats...who wouldn't want one? I could build the enclousure as tall as 9'(3 meters Mur.) and sercure cut trees/branches in the soil for climbing. Should the soil depth still be 2'...do they dig like other monitors?
Feeding and temps seem straight forward, however, I'm wondering about the basking light. Should it be located up high over the branches or near the ground?
Also what do you consider a reasonable amount of floor space? I know the bigger the better, but I'm hoping for some figure a little more concrete?

Thanks to all for the advice.

Hi again NatZoo,

The concentration on height is not necessary. It is more about space. As for them being arboreal, well, again we are referencing study-based info. And this is not to say it isn't helpful or doesn't have its place. From what the text says, it is juveniles that take up in trees.. not so much adults. I have not personally observed wild v. albigularis, so I am not sure.

But, again, we cannot assume that height is a necessity (function)- or even a preference (personal like)- when it could be given the context (nature), but may not be given ours (captivity).

Just give them options. We started ours in a very small enclosure (as babies) and moved them up to a 10 x 4 x 4.. of which is not their final enclosure. Our emphasis was deep soil substrate, of many. They do have branches, but they are not vertical- rather more horizontal.

They will dig, but ours keep to a developed and concentrated burrow. It is here they spend most their time, if they are not out basking or exploring (some).

The basking light placement is actually pivotal. This was discussed just recently on another forum too. The basking site is good in a place of security, actually. Where they can easily retreat or run for cover. Optimally, if they do not have to move far from their hiding to bask- that is ideal. So, no do not put the light at the peaks of branches unless you are doing so as an option, but not at -the- site.

Hi NATZOO,
I just want to give my own thoughts on enclosure size for the babies/juveniles (I`ll assume that`s what you would want).
I like to offer them something in the range of 4L x 2.5W x 3H (Feet). (120 x 75 x 90 cm). I feel that height gives you room for a decent depth of substrate, 12 plus inches (30plus cm), the length/width allows for a good temp gradient, and also means you`re not changing cages every couple of months, which is expensive for you, and somewhat stressful for the animal to be constantly rehoused(they grow so quickly under optimum conditions).
I agree totally about the basking spot being close to cover (excellent point by "ree".

Hey Zooanderson,

I am not sure if that is what was meant by it- if it was as you said- a captive vs. wild counterpart take. It seemed it was more of how Murrindindi explained it: shy, bold, etc.

Either way: you missed my point. I did not say it was a bad question- I said it was an odd one. And, really this is not for NatZoo alone, as we all have likely asked something similar at one time or another. The question is: why do we ask it. Really think about it and where this question comes from. It is about the context.. what is captivity anyway? Also: that is the obvious interpretation of what that question means.. Like, only the surface meaning. I guess you can take multiple takes on the same question. There was a point to what I said and it was missed.. But I did figure it would be.

You also have made a lot of generalizations here. I cannot really say that captive monitors have a longer life span then their wild counterparts.. as you have. This is an area we know very little about (wild studies). Why is it that "the wild" produces, naturally, baby offspring- the many captive hatched or even wild babies available? And yes, you are right.. There certainly are benefits to captive husbandry, as I have said- a plentiful food supply, or a lack of predation (not always either), but there are also limitations. But, this is all redundant- a captive vs wild deal. What is "captivity"? What is the wild? Context. And these things and their "definition" differ too depending on their actual context.

And we really do not need to curtail disease by a vet- if the monitor is properly kept, we really do not need vets. Obviously, they do have a purpose and use situationally. But this approach is all backwards. We do not need attempt to fix or band-aid illness that is actually caused by improper husbandry.

And why is it that we undermine nature's brilliant ability and its capacity to take care of itself? I should mention, this topic is about monitors, not animals abroad (so, I am not sure which others you meant). These wild studies on monitors are very limited, and also very context specific.. particular areas, times of year and even, personal interpretation.

Anyhow, please take this post kindly- as I thought you brought up some good outlines to discuss.. this text often comes with little expression. So, again, to be taken lightly.

Monitors are wild animals, there first choice is not to be in captivity. After that, its the keepers task to make them "happy" in captivity. Its not about a species. Its about you and the monitor.