Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've posted a couple times about a snake that won't eat. I'm finally getting to trying to force feed it, but I noticed that it's jaw is popped out like it's been trying to eat....I've had a live pink in there all night. I'm still going to try froce feeding when I get this posted because I'm so afraid it's going to die. If it doesn't eat, however, I'm afraid I'm going to have to 'put it out of it's misery'. And I was wondering what the most humane way to do this is. Please don't think that I want my snake to die...I just lost one due to mites and I'm starting to question myself as a keeper....but I just can't bear to see the little guy suffer anymore. He hasn't eaten in 2 mos. Thanks for any info you can offer.

-Drako

I'm afraid that I'm going to make the snake suffer even more if I try force feeding. I don't know how to well enough and i'll just hurt him.... I'm just going to have to end it

np

n/p

np.

ok genius. I bought the thing when it was sick. I knew it was a nonfeeder. I was trying to help it. My other snakes are perfectly healthy. This snake as well as the other one I lost were purchased while ill. I knew they were ill and I am trying to help them. I do the best I can. I've had 2 other snakes bought like this and I've helped them and they're healthy and eating now.

I'm sorry if you think I'm an irresponsible person, but quite frankly, your opinion doesn't matter much to me. I buy them and try to help. I don't want to kill it, but for this one I see no other option.

You bought a nonfeeding snake and you cant force feed it?How is that considered a rescue?I will be the first person to admit i hate force feeding.I hate the fact that i might screw up and kill the poor thing.But,for me at least,It beats watching them starve to death.And yes i have had to put sick reptiles down,some arent meant to make it....Paul.

You have mentiond buying sick snakes before, is it from the same source? Perhaps by buying these sick snakes, you are encouraging your source from continualy trying to sell unhealthy animals. It may be better to leave these sick snakes with the person trying to sell them cause, if they don't sell or all die before they are sold, this source you use, may not get anymore in or breeding them, thus saving snakes in the future from suffering the same fate.

With any sort of pet out there, quality breeders and animal lovers always recommend buying a pet from a reputable breeder or source. To ask questions about the health of the animal, see the parents and siblings, check to make sure the animal is healthy looking, even request recent vet examination reports. All this is to promote and support breeders who are in the trade for the betterment of the animal, not to line their pocketbooks. We have all heard of puppy mills, iquana farms etc that mass produce animals at the least possible expense with no care at all for the health of these animals, or the effects of repetitive back to back breeding and unclean conditions to these animals, and we all found these stories horrifying. Which is why it is very important to always ensure the pets you buy are of the highest quality available within your budget range.

Though I understand the reasons behind why you buy sick animals sometimes you have to resist that urge, unless you are willing and able to put the time and money into nursing it back to health. If you feel uncomfortable force feeding the snake, take it to a herp vet and ask them to assist you. Most use either a tube or syringe (minus needle) to squeezed grouned up food into a snake. However if it is too weak, they may not even want to do it, perhaps recommending it be humanely put to sleep.

Ok, again, background info will help...good thing this forum has a couple pages, or else I wouldn't remember anything...

Is this the one that came from a pet store, was spinning around and upside down? You took it to the vet, got meds?
Anything happen? Is it still acting wierd?
You tried the anole?
If there seems to be something medically wrong with it that isn't getting better, and it won't eat, I can't blame you for wanting to put it down. I've heard that putting them in the refriderator first, to lower their metabolism and put them in a 'hibernation' kind of state, and then transferring them to a freezer, is used to put down snakes. I don't have experience with that.

Maybe try 'assist-feeding' it a mouse tail? The tails are easier to get in, but they're not very nutritious. But sometimes just getting something in them will 'jump-start' thier feeding response. But if the snake is weak, I don't know if you should try to get something more nutritious in it, if you're going to try a little longer.

I think I would at least attempt to get something in it and see what happens first.
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-audri
Webpage/Pics

yeah, this is the spinning one and it's still spinning. I don't know what would cause that, and i've asked some friends of mine with alot more experience than me and they don't know. I was told that it may be parasites so I had someone give him something that kills them and it's not done anything at all. Even if I got something in it, I'm not sure that it'd do much for him. I've tried the anole and live pinks and frozen. It won't even acknowlege that the other animal is in the feeding tank that i use. I'll try a mouse tail tomorrow after classes.

Like i said before: I don't want to see him die. I just don't want to see him suffer anymore.

-Drako
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"People like you are the reason people like me need medication"

First things that come to mind about spinning/upside down:
1. inner ear problem? infection, whatever, causing equilibrium to be 'messed up'?
2. neurological damage/other problem? IBD in boas and pythons can affect the snakes ability to right itself, among other motion problems. I think damage to the brain, through toxins or other things, can also cause problems with motor control.

Does the snake have trouble going places? Can it get from point A to point B with little trouble, some problems, or not at all? Is it flailing around, like a fish out of water, I guess, or moving more 'deliberately'-looking?

Now, I'm not a vet, nor have I experienced similar problems, so I can't really help that much. Hopefully you won't feel guilty over whatever choice you make.
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-audri
Webpage/Pics

Just about everything this snake does looks nondeliberate. If he coils up, he has trouble getting undone and ends up spinning around and then I see him and feel bad and turn him right side up again.
I'm kind of weird about killing my animals....I can't even kill mice myself... If I have to freeze the little guy, I'll have my brother do it when I'm not around....

-Drako
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"People like you are the reason people like me need medication"

Drako,
The symptoms you describe sound just like those in one of our Corns. I posted here several months ago and described her movements to be like a corkscrew as she moved about, and when she curled up she had trouble untangling herself. Sounds just like yours.

I received a response from Kathy Love who said she had one with the same symptoms, and unfortunately it died (as did mine) possibly from starvation since it could not eat. Sounds alot like the same neurological disorder. Hope yours recovers. Good luck.

MAP

It is NOT humane, even if you cool them into brumation first. It's just a slow cold death. I admit I do not know the exact mechanism of it, but I have even read it here on Kingsnake somewhere or another that it is a bad idea. Think about it, in the wild snakes routinly survive below freezing temps all winter long. Granted they are in little cozy dens, but I'm sure even those cozy little dens get pretty dang cold sometimes.
I have personally seen fish frozen solid come back to life, hell, I have seen dead baby bunnies stiff on a freezing morning come back to life in my hands when warmed up. If mammals can do it, reptiles certainly can.

THE BEST WAY to put a snake down is to take it to the vet and have them do it. I dont know about all vets, but at the one I work at we charge like $10 for little critters. I'm hoping you can afford that at least.

After reading all you have written, I think putting it to sleep is a good idea. The curling and spinning sounds neurologic and there isn't a lot you can do in most cases. You can always try a course of antibiotics, but if it is not bacterial then it is pointless, and I dont think you can cure it.

Sorry, these things suck, you did well to try.
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DogStar

"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." --Antoine de Saint Exupery

yes, fish definaetely come back to life. for anyone whos ever been on a fishing trip, and you caught a keeper, threw it in your cooler which if full of ice, you probly noticed when you open your cooler a few hours later the thing may start flapping around a bit
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0.0.1 pacific gopher snake ; Mich
0.0.1 albino corn snake ; Shmee
0.0.1 motley corn snake ; Andy

Your responce is exactly why I posted on here and didn't just throw it in there.... I wasn't sure. I can and probably will take it to a vet to have it put down. The store I got it from, that I'm going to let remain nameless, has told me that they're going to see if they can do something for me because of it being a neurological problem. The guy I talked to was very nice and said that he'd see what he could do because it wasn't my fault. I can deal with a nonfeeder, but this was beyond my capabilities.

Thanks for your help, I'm going to try to get the little guy to the vet again before this weekend.

-Drako
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"People like you are the reason people like me need medication"

>>Your responce is exactly why I posted on here and didn't just throw it in there.... I wasn't sure. I can and probably will take it to a vet to have it put down. The store I got it from, that I'm going to let remain nameless, has told me that they're going to see if they can do something for me because of it being a neurological problem. The guy I talked to was very nice and said that he'd see what he could do because it wasn't my fault. I can deal with a nonfeeder, but this was beyond my capabilities.
>>
>>Thanks for your help, I'm going to try to get the little guy to the vet again before this weekend.
>>
>>-Drako
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>>"People like you are the reason people like me need medication"
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DogStar

"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." --Antoine de Saint Exupery

I had the little guy put down.
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"People like you are the reason people like me need medication"

np?

np

np

Snakes don't have external ears, or middle ears. They -do- have inner ears.

"Unlike many other reptiles, the snake exhibits no external ear. Further more their middle ear is almost non-existent. The tympanic plate, Eustachian tube, and eardrum are absent. On the other hand the inner ear is generally organized like that of other vertebrates. The sensory formation of the semicircular canal, the utricle and saccule, ensure balance. The cochlear canal picks up and react to vibrations.(Mattison, C. 1995)"

Just FYI.
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-audri
Webpage/Pics

np

How could it get infected?It's just something i havent heard of before in snakes.How could it even be diagnosed?Im just curious.I always read your posts and find the info you give to be outstanding and respectable....Paul.

ps.Bow season starts in 5 hours and between work,union business,a pregnant wife,and doing all the housework and midnite runs to taco bell for my wife im just gonna have to take a break from here for a little while.Im sure alot of people are breathing a sigh of relief....Paul.