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I am building a new rack out of a wardrobe. This is my first melamine rack.
First off, are 28 qt steritlite containers big enough for adult pyros and zonata??
They measure 22"widex16"deepx6"tall

Second question. If the piece of melamine is 3/4 inch thick and only the size of the tub, Can it be expected that a piece that small will still sag over time like the bigger racks having multiple tubs per shelf do??

Thank you all

First off, are 28 qt steritlite containers big enough for adult pyros and zonata??
They measure 22"widex16"deepx6"tall

YES

Second question. If the piece of melamine is 3/4 inch thick and only the size of the tub, Can it be expected that a piece that small will still sag over time like the bigger racks having multiple tubs per shelf do??

The problem is not sagging, but swelling. They will still swell as long as water bowl condensation is present. They swell even quicker if you live in a humid climate. Swelling causes the tubs to no longer fit.

But you will probably get 4-5 years out of it.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"I agree! This guy is the smartest guy on the forum! Pure Genius!"

But you will probably get 4-5 years out of it.

I disagree, if you keep your racks inside a climate controlled house, keep them clean, and seal all raw edges you can get 15 plus years out of them. I personally have one that is 15 and about every couple of years or so, I will flip the shelves. I have no problems with swelling. Remember you can leave a 1/16 inch gap minimum between tub and shelf. More if you plan to keep adults in them. Also remember when the ambient humidity drops the shelves will shrink. So if you build the rack in a humid enviroment and move it into a controlled enviroment the gaps will change.

I think all rack systems built can last a very long time if the keeper takes care of them. I personally built all my new melamine racks out of 1/2 in melamine. So far this year no swelling and tubs sticking. I have some I built last fall and no change. I also haven't sealed all edges either, and I live in FL where it's really humid.

Just my experiences.
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Jimmy Tintle

Jimmy,
Read my post.. I said it depends on the humidty, spilled water dishes, etc.

OF COURSE IF YOU KEEP THEM IN CLIMATE CONTROL and make sure the snakes don't turn over water THEY WON'T SWELL! Or keep a species that does not require much or any water like rosy boas.

I kept melamine in the dryer west coast of Calif and they did not swell. But i also had no water dishes in the tubs, as i kept rosy boas in the units. So watering was once a week at best. I also had them in the main part of the house..But most parts of the country it is humid. Also most snakes in racks are kept in garages and not in a seprate bedroom of the house.

So yes melamime will swell with most normal use.. That is why most people don't use them or they were thrown out and/or discontinued by manufacturers.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"I agree! This guy is the smartest guy on the forum! Pure Genius!"

So yes melamime will swell with most normal use.. That is why most people don't use them or they were thrown out and/or discontinued by manufacturers.

Maybe your normal use! Not everyone has the same husbandry as you,Rainer. I did read your post and in part of your original post did you state spilled water dishes. First off melamine will not swell with just a water dish on the inside of a tub. The pvc coating does not absorb water. And if that is the case 90% of all the new homes built will need new cabinets every 5 years.

Second, I don't know about you but if my snakes tip over their water bowl the tub is cleaned and new bedding is put back in the same day when I do my spot check. So let me question your husbandry, how long are your snakes sitting in a flooded tub?

Thirdly, If you have constant condensation building up on your tubs either your tubs don't have enough air flow. Which will cause it or you have bottom heat and your water bowl is over it. Both of which cause mold to grow in your tubs and racks and can't be good for your collection.

So let me question your husbandry, and believe it or not most people I see post pictures of their collections have them either in a finished basement or a decicated room in their house. And if it is in the garage it has some sort of way to try and keep the ambient temperature with out huge fluctuations.

HEY READ MY POST!!!! IT STATES THAT "THESE ARE MY EXPERIENCES"!!!!
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Jimmy Tintle

Maybe your normal use! Not everyone has the same husbandry as you,Rainer. I did read your post and in part of your original post did you state spilled water dishes.

So let me question your husbandry, how long are your snakes sitting in a flooded tub?

Questionable husbandry? Flooded tub?

No I don't leave spilled water bowls in the units. To make such a statement shows you have a personal beef with me. Why can't you just stick to the snakes and quit being a prick and just stick to the facts.

These posts are why this why this forum has so many problems. You have never been to my house. You never saw my collection. I lived in several places and now I live in a house with 700 square feet of dedicated snake room.

See my post below which i posted before you made your post.

..i don't know if just a "spilled" water bowl alone would cause swelling. probably any water bowl sitting in there day and night will suffice to make the wood swell. Combine that with any heat tope and you get high humididty. Especially if you see water doprlets forming above the inside shelve.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"I agree! This guy is the smartest guy on the forum! Pure Genius!"

Whoa, personal beef? No, personal beef the only part of what I know about you is what you post. You came out with CAPS in your post, making it sound that my personal experiences were wrong. So if there is any beef it's you. I think you were upset with me because I disagreed with your statement of 5 yrs. I stated proof as to why I knew that they could last longer.

I always post personal experiences and never subject anyone to the right or wrong way because there is none.

Now, I didn't read the post below until after I posted my reply, so sorry for taken your statements the wrong way, my bad....

So let me ask, what are your current housing conditions now? Melamine racks? Freedom Breeder type? What is working for you?
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Jimmy Tintle

Question, if you have been keeping snakes in melamine racks for 15 years why the basic husbandry questions you asked a month ago of me? Those questions were real basic questions and made you appear as a newbie. Yet all of a sudden you are an expert calling my husbandry poor yet you don't know me. Are you just trolling me like you did earlier just to see my responses?

Also, I didn't make it sound as if your personal experince is wrong. What i typed in capped was this:

"OF COURSE IF YOU KEEP THEM IN CLIMATE CONTROL ..they won't swell"

So why are you tristing things ..perhaps to try and put me on the defensive?

See i agreed with you. But your response was rather obvious as with anything that you keep can be made to last longer. most peoople don't build a climmte controlled "CIGAR ROOM" to house their cigars. That is why melamine with normal usage does swell.

heck I have only been doing this since the beginning when melamine was started being used. So now you assume.it is my husbandry because my experince does not macth yours?
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www.Bluerosy.com

Question, if you have been keeping snakes in melamine racks for 15 years why the basic husbandry questions you asked a month ago of me? Those questions were real basic questions and made you appear as a newbie. Yet all of a sudden you are an expert calling my husbandry poor yet you don't know me. Are you just trolling me like you did earlier just to see my responses?

See the reason being is: I wanted to find out your husbandry and the way you kept stuff and I still do, that's why the questions.( I am trying to make rational sense, and by asking newbie questions I can get my mind to understand your thought process. Considering everything is cookie cutter in all the books) I have been keeping snakes off and on for 18 or 19 years I have the original rack I built from when I was 17. Its a heavy SOB made out of melamine. It has held up many of moves and conditions.

I never said your husbandry was bad, I said that
Second, I don't know about you but if my snakes tip over their water bowl the tub is cleaned and new bedding is put back in the same day when I do my spot check. So let me question your husbandry, how long are your snakes sitting in a flooded tub?

Thirdly, If you have constant condensation building up on your tubs either your tubs don't have enough air flow. Which will cause it or you have bottom heat and your water bowl is over it. Both of which cause mold to grow in your tubs and racks and can't be good for your collection.

I simply was asking a question about your husbandry, take it how you want. I feel if there is condensation build up on the tubs that is not good for Lampropeltis, that's all.

Also, I didn't make it sound as if your personal experince is wrong. What i typed in capped was this:

So why are you tristing things ..perhaps to try and put me on the defensive?

I also said "My Bad",I took it out of context, with no emotion or sound sometimes words come off not as they are meant. Kinda like my question about your husbandry.

See i agreed with you. But your response was rather obvious as with anything that you keep can be made to last longer. most peoople don't build a climmte controlled "CIGAR ROOM" to house their cigars. That is why melamine with normal usage does swell.

heck I have only been doing this since the beginning when melamine was started being used. So now you assume.it is my husbandry because my experince does not macth yours?

You know what you get when you assume. I was simply asking, how long they were in a flooded tub. That's is all. Rainer, you keep more than 1 animal in a tub so I am figuring or assuming you have a large to extra large water bowl. See what I get when I assume. Makes an A$$ out of me. My bad. Sorry for the confusion, but whether it is snakes or cabinets I have been working with melamine since 1984, I have worked in the cabinet trade all the way up to 2007. Melamine in most uses will stand up for 20-25plus years if taken care of.

Truce??? Back to the real topic, anything good cooking in the incubator with you? Any special projects that your working on?
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Jimmy Tintle

The tubs i use for muttiple snakes have perforated aluminum tops. They are also giant tubs.

Your assumptions and accusations of tubs "flooded" with water and assuming i keep 5 animals in a regular sweater box tub can't be taken any other way.
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www.Bluerosy.com

its kinda like another poster on here thats "SELF PROCLAIMED"... " been breedin snakes for 20 some odd yrs!" and knows it all and has done it all but wants to know how to use a pinkiepump? or what bedding to use or what to do for a bad shed or aggression, breeding eggbox setups,etc... ROFLMFAO! also you would think SOMEBODY, SOMEWHERE would know of or AT LEAST heard of these EXPERIENCED breeders in 20-30 years huh? now you better run along and check for flooded tubs LMAO
,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

just like in the old playground days....
Now I'm ROFLMAO!
Do we REALLY have grown men on this forum?
Not judging anyone - JUST ASKING...
Please don't bash ME next guys-I'm just having a little fun....I know ALL of us are good people.....I like ALL of you guys here, but:

Cindy may have to put the smack-down on the testosterone again!

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

howdy Zeei love you to man, poor lil obseleta HAPPY KING
testosterone? hmmmm you may be onto something... of course with some of the posters i feel its estrogen that flares up... mmmmm 6of one half dozen of another i reckon.
,,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Hi there Thomas!
i should've mentioned that the poor obsoleta WAS a poor obsoleta...Back half of him was ran over by a car on a highway near my house. Part of him was actually cut open (not visible in the pic). I DID feel bad for him, and since I was only a block from my house, I took him home and well......I thought it was better than letting the fire ants get a hold of him......
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

You have to seperate those two SNAKES A.S.A.P. !!!! the black one is about to kill the BULL SNAKE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!! You can't keep sertan SNAKES together like that!

oh YEAH! Even thogh I know this isnt a snake per say, it still doesnt have legs such as a SNAKE and it has at least 2 eye balls that look like SNAKE HEMIPENISES such as a SNAKE. and she has a long tail to. I poked his eye balls and they went back inside such as a SNAKES HEMIPENISES. The first picture is grose to me becuase of the way it looks to me and such. And she is much slower then a SNAKE becasue she is a snail and has no bones and such.

at once!!! Ultimate STUD MUFFIN!!!
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

if that was a full grown BULL SNAKE that would never have happened becuse BULL SNAKES grow to 10 feet sometomes and most other SNAKES dont.

And someone told me that they were just playing ....Oops, sorry!

No the poor fellow was ran over by a car (part of him was busted open - not visible in pic) and I thought it'd be better that the King should get him instead of those nasty fire ants!
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Carsten,

Just an observation here on this forum and herpetocuturists in general. It is the high levels of estrogen. I have been going to many unrelated herp boards for many years. And nowhere else do men act like this except in this hobby-which attracts these loner low test, non athelte types..I think a lot of herpers have low test. But that's okay. Makes you live longer and keeps you from going bald.

Now shatup!.... HA HA HA HA!
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www.Bluerosy.com

OUCH! ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So either you are saying you ALL have low test or I have high test...

Think and then answer which it is.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

What?

I was an All District Linebacker for 4 years in a row....and Defensive Team Captain.....
Plus I played one year of College Baseball........

Yep....I am one of those them there ustawases.......LMAO!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

"And I scored FOUR touchdowns in ONE game at Polk High!!!!!!!!!!!"

"And now I'm a shoe salesman....."
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Imagine that someone that has kept snakes for 15 years without being on this forum......Hey that's weird, this is the cutting edge place to be! Great people here! Great Information! Thanks for all the great posts I have learned so much!
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Jimmy Tintle

(((((Imagine that someone that has kept snakes for 15 years without being on this forum......Hey that's weird, this is the cutting edge place to be! Great people here! Great Information! Thanks for all the great posts I have learned so much!)))))

You're NOT alone....
I've kept snakes for about 30 years and I'm STILL learning!!! Stick around (this forum), and you'll learn a lot more like the rest of us - You may even get some good laughs - I DO!!!!
Oh, and good luck with your rack building. Make sure you leave all gaps and air holes as small as possible, otherwise you will get some bloody-nosed kingsnakes. (That's something I learned when I built my first rack - if a snake THINKS he can fit through a hole that is small but not small enough, he will die trying to force his way out)

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

ummm, I started this thread and got a good laugh just reading between KCtrader and Bluerosy.

Me too.....LOL.....Good luck with the build, as John L said post some pics during the build. Also what are you planning on using for heat?
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Jimmy Tintle

Mosly HOT ROCKs and indesent LIGHTS bulbs. And I have 3 of each. Thanks for saying things back to me!

Hot rocks are cool if you put a scented candle on it....Smells good tooo....LOL
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Jimmy Tintle

I clean all my SnaKES on the spots that have poop and such. So they don't stink to much. Thanks for saying things back to me on here.

that sure is a good idea, glad you are Johnny on the spot. I am sure your snakes like you too...
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Jimmy Tintle

Actually here is how I manage the condensation and humidity problem. All my boxes either have a shoe box or clear 15" round I think may be 12" container with spagnum moss. I have been switching to the shoe boxes because the plastic containers melt in the dryer cycle of the dish washer.Also there is a pic of the racks, sorry for cell phone pics just didn't have camera ready.

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Jimmy Tintle

>>Actually here is how I manage the condensation and humidity problem. All my boxes either have a shoe box or clear 15" round I think may be 12" container with spagnum moss. I have been switching to the shoe boxes because the plastic containers melt in the dryer cycle of the dish washer.Also there is a pic of the racks, sorry for cell phone pics just didn't have camera ready.
>>
>>
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>>Jimmy Tintle

Dude....wait until we unveil the ultimate husbandry tool.....lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Lol . Looking forward to the unveiling.

From what I understand is you have the first cutting edge husbandry tool in decades!!!!LOL
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Jimmy Tintle

>>From what I understand is you have the first cutting edge husbandry tool in decades!!!!LOL
>>-----
>>Jimmy Tintle

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm......maybe.........lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Thomas,

My point again is always taken off track. I assume people KNOW that humidty levels for most kingsnakes should be there. Perfectly dry cages and a small water bowls does not suffice, unless there is some buildup of humidty. WHICH means drops form on the tops of the units. That proper buildup will swell the racks.

With all these posters with non swelling melamine.. I wonder how many of these snakes are dehydrated and they don't know it? Or don't they care?? Humidty levels are impostant and a small water bowl just does not do it. So if you up the humidty, either with a large water bowl or some wet spahgnum etc.. the melamine will swell.

We all know from FR's posts snakes do and seek 3 things... food, temps and humidty.

I just don't see how these snakes can be given choices they need in perfectly dry and non-humid conditions. Just so that their precious racks can be preserved?
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www.Bluerosy.com

I am not involved in this so I reluctantly add my two cents.
I realize this is aimed ( technically) at Thomas though obviously aimed at others.

My involvement is mostly to clarify that as I follow Franks suggestions, or at least what I have gleaned from them is that "choices" are the primary focus. A cage dripping from the roof/top is too humid,there is no "dry"
Frank has mentioned in the past that a background of 50 percent relative humidity is a good basic with other "elevated" areas provided for choice of higher. So a static background that humid would. Be a mistake as well as possibly a lack of sufficient air movement and accompanying mold and fungus breeding ground leaving the occupant with no choice or ability to fight fungal/respritory ills.

Again. This is what I've taken from Franks posts and what I have been trying to do.
Maybe Frank can clarify if I'm misunderstanding
Maybe I am wrong.

You're not wrong Bob.
I'll tell anyone: If you REALLY want the RIGHT answer (on keeping snakes happy), don't follow my or anyone's suggestions (nobody's a snake - we're all humans).
If you want to know what the snake REALLY needs or wants, just study/research what the snake does in the wild, (if you have the time). Ie.: It moves from place to place constantly adjusting to its' changing environment desiring certain conditions. If you provide it similar opportunities (as best as you can) in its' cage, then it can decide how warm it wants to be or how humid it wants to be or how much privacy it wants (variability within its' environment). It's copying (as best as you can) what happens in nature, that's all there is. Luckily (for us), it doesn't take a rocket scientist or the world's greatest herpetologist to know that.............
Then again, if you DON'T have time for the research then you can always come on this forum and follow someone else's suggestions, be it Frank, Bob, Tom, Mike, David, Jim or whoever.....(BTW: That's what I do, as I don't have the free time on my hands that some of the guys on here have.) BUT ONE DAY I WILL.....I SWEAR!!!
So, with all that rambling - I'm basically just agreeing with you, lol!
That's my 0.3 cents................

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

I am always learning too and trying to do it better.
Appreciate it.
And you cap it all off by posting a cool pic of one of the coolest snakes out there to boot! Lol.

I noticed you posted a nice Montgomery county King above.....Isn't it ironic that THIS one came from the county just SOUTH of Montgomery county, NC. It is a Richmond county animal. Richmond county is only two counties away from where I live.....

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

I have to admit that I have been envious( jealous) of you guys that live in N.C.!
It's one of the prettiest States I have visited and home to so many herps that I particularly like. I often tease my wife about moving there some day. I have some herp friends there that would be fun to spend more time with.
I love all the Chipmunks in my yard but as a reptile guy I always get jazzed about stepping outside a place down there and seeing Anoles running around every where! You guys have got it!

Funny you should mention anoles....
Those guys come to my two car garage in large numbers every year in late fall to overwinter. I have counted around forty of them when they come out on cool winter days to sunbathe a little. When the spring comes, they ALL disperse back into the woods again behind my garage and you'll be lucky to find just a couple then....
But then in late fall, they gather again! I love seeing those little guys and feel very privileged to provide them with a hibernaculum! They're also a great pest control!
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Thanks. That makes me less jealous?

Well.... I live in AZ, which can be one of the driest places on earth, so the humidity from weather will not be affecting it, but I also would never house my animals in a garage because I feel that they deserve the same protection from the elements as I get, not to mention I like the company of all the animals, and the wife likes em too.
But, If the shelves did expand.... are we talking more or less than that 1/16th of an inch you are talking about??? If its less than that then it would never be an issue.

Thank you for the opinions.

When the melamine racks swell you can just try switching to a smaller size tub. I had that where designed for the old style rubbermaids. When they did not fit i tried the narrower model sterlite. Now those fit just fine.

But if you live in arid desert like AZ (and the water bowls don't get turned over causing condensation). Yours should last a long time.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"I agree! This guy is the smartest guy on the forum! Pure Genius!"

It's hard to tell how much it may expand due to the actual water content in the wood to begin with. If you build the rack in a humid area(90%) and you bring it in to a dry area (10%) I doubt any more than 1/16th of an inch. But I use 1/2 melamine and it has been good, and 3/4 is what you stated you may use and that may expand a little more as there is more wood content.
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Jimmy Tintle

So.... If the particle board is covered with an acrylic layer (Melamine or Formica) why would a spilled water bowl cause any issue when the moisture is on the covered surface of the wood?? Does this make a difference? No part of the actual wood is showing.

Not to mention by that point when the wood is swelling from condensation, I would be more worried that the Urea/Phenol Formaldehyde would be release which is a confirmed carcinogenic to myself and cannot be good for animals either. (which all MDF or Particle board has in it)

So.... If the particle board is covered with an acrylic layer (Melamine or Formica) why would a spilled water bowl cause any issue when the moisture is on the covered surface of the wood?? Does this make a difference? No part of the actual wood is showing.

I don't know how it works. I just know from keeping melamine racks for several decades they sell..i don't know if just a "spilled" water bowl alone would cause swelling. probably any water bowl sitting in there day and night will suffice to make the wood swell. Combine that with any heat tope and you get high humididty. Especially if you see water doprlets forming obove the inside shelve.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"I agree! This guy is the smartest guy on the forum! Pure Genius!"

So.... If the particle board is covered with an acrylic layer (Melamine or Formica) why would a spilled water bowl cause any issue when the moisture is on the covered surface of the wood?? Does this make a difference? No part of the actual wood is showing.

If the particle board or even MDF is covered with either a pvc coating or formica it will not swell the wood. The only way the sheets of wood swell is when there is an exposed end. If you pvc tape the ends of your rack the glue from the tape will seal the wood and make it harder for moisture to get in. Now if the melamine is thin and your tub rubs it may eventually rub the melamine off to expose the raw particle board and cause swelling.

Not to mention by that point when the wood is swelling from condensation, I would be more worried that the Urea/Phenol Formaldehyde would be release which is a confirmed carcinogenic to myself and cannot be good for animals either. (which all MDF or Particle board has in it)

Exactly, in the mid 90's I used to cut 40-80 sheets of melamine a day. I had formed a rash from the formaldehyde and additives that were added into it. But when we change distributors and stopped buying South American melamine and started buying Canadian the rash went away.
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Jimmy Tintle

Yepp, That formaldehyde is usually cut with bovine urine and sometimes even has a pungent smell when you cut the wood.
Skin irritation huh?? Sounds bad.
The canadian distributor?? Who are they and are they still around?? Does their wood have no formaldehyde??
Everything you can get in homedepot or lowes or any of those stores have it in them.
Thanks

Most all the wood we get now after the housing boom is Canadian, but during that time of the real estate boom we subjected ourselves to alternatives. As far as I know all melamine has formaldehyde in it, some more than others. I think also the SA wood we were getting had exotic wood particles in it, which could have cause the rash also. I'll never know.

I will tell you one thing, I went from bottom heat to back heat and I like it much better. Just me experience though. Maybe John L can repost his open air rack he built with melamine and all-thread. He has no problem with sagging either. If I find it I will post it here.
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Jimmy Tintle

Sorry it was posted by Beaker30....

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1771208,1771208&key=2009
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Jimmy Tintle

Alright alright.... Well thanks to you and the person who posted that, I have changed my idea completely.

I was going to buy the ikea pax wardrobe frame with shelves and just raise and lower shelves... Now I am going to just buy the black shelves, do the all thread idea like shown in the images, and panel the sides with black PVCX...

Thanks for all the opinions provided and especially thanks for that link!!!

Glad I could help. I thought that was a pretty nifty idea too...Good luck with the build, post some pics afterwards...
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Jimmy Tintle

>>Alright alright.... Well thanks to you and the person who posted that, I have changed my idea completely.
>>
>>I was going to buy the ikea pax wardrobe frame with shelves and just raise and lower shelves... Now I am going to just buy the black shelves, do the all thread idea like shown in the images, and panel the sides with black PVCX...
>>
>>
>>Thanks for all the opinions provided and especially thanks for that link!!!

Great idea.....LOL
Share pics when you are done or take some while you build it so you can have step by step (progression) pics......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

for sure man... I always take the pics during the building of my racks.
This will be my 6th rack I have built in the last 5 years. Went from Plywood, to melamine, to pvcx, to back to melamine and not this is going to be a hybrid of pvc for siding but melamine for shelves with the new idea of the all thread.
The all thread came in 6 foot long segments and all my racks are 6 feet tall, so its the same height, also the pvc I got is black so it looks sharp.
That is one of the best Ideas I have ever seen with the all thread.

I have melamine racks that are about 17 years old with the same thickness you have described. No sagging yet.
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Genesis 1:1

well, It sounds like a melamine rack can be a good idea if done right.
How large is your 17 year old one?
What size are the shelves?? length and width approx?
Are all edges sealed or is the not showing end of the melamine or sides not covered??(some bookcases come this way)

Thanks for your response

Well, they fit the standard old sweaterboxes that Rubbermaid made in the early to mid nineties: 20 x 14 boxes or two of the bootboxes which are 13 1/2 x 9, in each slot. I never did get the ends covered, so they still show the wood grain.

Never, ever had sagging or swelling.
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Genesis 1:1

I built this hatchling unit last year. It is actually two units put together. The lower unit has 8 levels, and the top has 7, @ 6 tubs across...holds 90 tubs.

My only real complaint is the weight....it's a beast to roll around, let alone lift. There has been a little sagging, but I anticipated this and so placed spacers down the center of each level. I've also recently separated the two units and with individual flex watt for each of them, this has proved to be better. Additionally, while anticipating the gradual sagging, I spaced the levels a little more than 1/16th. I found some white vinyl sheeting that I've cut to fit each level. I've slid this in to to the levels, beneath the tubs, housing the smaller hatchlings where "escape" was more of a concern. Doing this closed the gap a little and so far so good. No escapees!

The 2nd melamine rack to the right, in the middle pic, is at least 15 years old. Of course the levels are not as wide as the hatchling unit's, but it's held up well and has had virtually zero sagging.

If you're gonna go with wood, and don't mind the significant weight increase, melamine works great. It wipes down easily, looks good, and I believe is probably more sanitary.

Good luck!

thank you for that post... Can you tell me what kind of tubs those are?!? They look a lot nicer than the whopping 99 cents I spent on my shoe boxes. lol
The support in the middle should keep the sagging up. What thickness of melamine did you use?? 1/2 or 3/4"?

They're the Sterlite 2.7 qt (approx 13x8x3) latch box tubs - perfect for neonates. Sterlite makes three different sizes that ae all identical in heigth, but have different lengths and widths. The cool thing about it is the smalest one (the 1.2 qt - good for hatchling hogs) is exactly as long, as the 2.7 qt is wide. And the largest tub (the 6.2 qt) is exactly twice the length, as the 2.7 qt is wide. So in other words, my rack will will hold all three size tubs. The sweater box model (6.2 qt) just has to be slid in sideways. I bought them 2-3 case at a time, from Walmart.com, until I filled the up rack. The melamine is 3/4".

The 2nd and 3rd pics posted are of the smallest model (1.2 qt). If you look in the 1st pic, you can see the two different size tubs working together in harmony. Almost like PB and Jelly...or like nuts and bolts...or like all of Rainers florida kings...or like bacon and eggs...or like Dmong and Davis...or like Mcreedy and this whole forum...oh wait, scratch the last two. But you get the idea.

The best thing about these tubs is the fact they are EASY to clean; flat, smooth floors with no grooves.

Hope that helps.

"Dmong and Davis...or like Mcreedy and this whole forum"

LOL! Some things just go together and are etenal.

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www.Bluerosy.com

OH JUST SHUT UP. Your dorks to! so what EV! Im almost done with this place i sware!

sighned,

mcreedy "the dork" slayer

sighned,

"THE DROK-SLAYER"

sighned ,

THE "DORK - SLAYER". There!

Yeah! WhaEVA Mcreedy! We all now know who you really are..

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www.Bluerosy.com

Hahaha!!! Thats a jail piture and thats not even me and I never even been to jail and I'm not from jail neither!!!!!!

That doesn't look like the infamous curb painter that I know.

Kerby...
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Yeah, those 1.2 quart containers work great for hatchling!. On most of my plastic tubs(of any size), I like to take some coarse grit sandpaper and rough up the bottom surface just a bit in a circular motion to help keep the snakes from sliding the aspen. This gives the bottoms just enough friction to help keep the aspen substrate in place from sliding around as much. I have found that it really does work much better than the very slick, glass smooth bottom, and it is still smooth enough to wipe down just as easily..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

>>Second question. If the piece of melamine is 3/4 inch thick and only the size of the tub, Can it be expected that a piece that small will still sag over time like the bigger racks having multiple tubs per shelf do??>>

Depends on the grade of melamine. I have cages and racks that are pushing 5 years and they look as good as the day they were built. I used a cabinet grade melamine that runs around $60 per sheet. I would also recommend purchasing the iron-on edging. Good luck.

Brandon
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com