Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This 07' girl is about 4.5 foot already....Got her from the classifieds on here. My camera did not pick up the true yellow colors on this one. Her background color (between the blotches) is actually a little more yellow than what you see in the pic....I plan on pairing her with one of my golden corns next year and see what happens.....

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

I love Gold Dust! I said, I didn't want any Ultra Mels, but I don't think I can pass up some Gold dust. let us know how they turn out ZEE!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

I think it's time to throw in a few other genes....Maybe it'll improve egg fertility. Right now I only have four good (golden corn) eggs cookin' ......
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Hang in there I know it will be worth the wait man! Good Luck!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

I'll tell you what happens...

you then will have mixed grey rat into your "golden" corn project and screwed it up for alot of people?....people that want your golden corns...yes......

yes...I know people that will not buy any corn crosses...they want pure corn.......yes that leaves out alot of "corn" morphs......they won't even buy morphs they "suspect" MIGHT be crossed........

just letting you know....corns -are -corns -aren't -hybrids....

......
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........JY

That is the indeed the correct low-down on them Jeff. Many don't mind, but many more certainly do. If Zee does cross it into the Golddust, it would be very wise in my opinion to still keep plenty of untouched genuine golden corns from the line on hand for the future too. I would never want to change the uniqueness of the golden corns forever with an ultra/ultramel morph such as the golddusts, or any morph for that matter.

I would think that he would definitely know to keep the W/C locality genuine golden corn line going strong regardless.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Though Gold dusts are my guilty pleasures, that is what bothers me about them. Just knowing that there is Grey Rat mixed in them is disappointing. So Zee please if you do mix them, I hope you would keep a line of pure Goldens, or at least try outcrossing them with something that is at least pure Corn.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Didn't have the right info on that one....It's good to know that someone else out here does.....I was originally told something else ...... I DO know all the kingsnakes VERY well (since I've spent MUCH more time with them in the past), but I still have a loooong way to go with the many different Corn Morphs!!!! THANKS AGAIN GUYS....
Don't worry the Golden WILL remain 100% corn AND locality specific! Next to the black racers, Corn snakes are the most common snake in my county here.....I can literally find hundreds if i wanted to......
Since we are talking about pureness, I was wondering if any of you know why some corns in the wild have faint dark lateral stripes on them, others don't. Does this mean that the ones with the faint stripes may have crossed with a rat snake (maybe hundreds or thousands of years ago)? I have found some like that in NC, SC, and GA as early as the early 80's.....
The reddish one in the pic below has a little of the dark striping going on (not the best example), but I've seen some corns with much darker, more pronounced striping even here in this county as well.....

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Sure thing Zee!. We knew you would certainly want to keep some of those goldens an authentic, genuine locality-specific form anyway, but just threw it out there anyway..LOL! I can email you some of the history on the other deal that was mentioned..

Ya know, myself and certainly COUNTLESS other people have surely been wondering about those faint stripes found in many corns, especially in older wild-caught corns over the years. I have always wondered if it was caused from distant ratsnake geneflow, or just simply a fairly common wild phenotype like the remnant blotches are in many yellow rats specimens, and some are clean as a wistle and lack all remnant striping as they mature, etc..., even when another one right next to it might have absolutely zero blotch remnants displayed in it's outward phenotype. I just don't know if there is any ONE definite answer to this. I only say this because obviously wild snakes DO mix genes in the wild here and there without question. All I know is this is something that has been pondered for a very long time..LOL!

I also wonder if the more melanin that is exhibited for whatever reason(s) in some individuals, the more pronounced these stripes can often be displayed. Is it BECAUSE of other ratsnake influence in their genetic makeup?, or simply because the cornsnake is a darker, slightly different natural phenotype?.......I'm sure a yellow x corn would certainly display that look, but I'm guessing this look can also pop up here and there out of the blue from very distant hybridization too just as alot of other crosses can. I guess who the heck really knows without some DNA tests run on some of these duller, striped forms..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Here is a very similar dark red specimen captured in Orlando at the steps of a turnpike office. As a matter of fact, Jorge has some hypo lavender hets from this female. You can just make-out some vague striping on her dorsum as well.

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Very nice specimen....That one has almost NO black.....
And thanks for your input - as I have found some rather "stripey" looking corns here in NC in the past....I always thought they were a little on the ugly side, so I don't have any pics of them. But the next time I, (or my sons) find one I will take some pics, so you can see. I also happen to live in a county where THREE different (colored) rat snakes occur: In the northern part of my county (in the sand-hills, Ft. Bragg), they are solid black! Where I live (near the center and slightly lower elevation), they are either greenish or grayish. In the South-east corner they are yellowish....A lot of intergradation here (at least with rat snakes).
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

I certainly agree with that Zee!

Here are a few snakes I have from a very newly-discovered, hypo locality-specific intergrade "greenish" ratsnake captured in the northeastern corner of S. Carolina. These first two are owned by my friend, Jim Godfrey. He captured the original morph male in 2006 and two normal "greenish" rat intergrade females within 150 yards of one another in 2008 and proved the morph to be a simple recessive trait.

This is the original "moonshine" morph male when it matured with another locality female captured close by (photo courtesy of Jim Godfrey)

And here are some offspring I am working with descending from those animals.......

A normal het male for the "moonshine" morph.

another het female

"moonshine" morph female

"moonshine" morph male (lighter with lighter pink pupils)

Here is a corn to keep in theme a bit more..LOL!

double het for hypo lavender male

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Those moonshine" morph w/c locality-specific "greenish rats are awesome!! Nice to see a great example of a locality morph and not something made in a plastic tub!!
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Genesis 1:1

Thanks a bunch Billy!

And even more important and special, NOT man-made from other "stolen" subspecies genes from other long-since established morphs in the hobby, such as hypo Black Rat x Amel yellow x calico Black x hypo Everglades x Lemon Cow sucker x leucistic Texas rat, etc...

These will ALWAYS stay exactly as they are as long as I am working with them. Unfortunately, I'm sure after they get introduced in the hobby for a while, they will go on to be mixed into the "paint can" with all the other colors of "paint" in the hobby. Too many people never know when to leave something alone.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Doug, those things are killer! I love locale specific morphs. I hope no one crosses those things and screws them all up.
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
"I fight knowledge with ignorance"HAHAhaha..............

Thanks Gerard!,....glad you like those guys too.

I hope not either. I certainly won't ever be the one to do it!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

I'd say the corn patterns and colors are just corns being snakes and varying as they will....look at the things WE did with them....I'd think they were still corn ....

actually in the wild rats and corns do mix,,,but I think it is so very few......they know to breed their own kind....
examples...in the early 90's I put milks together to breed for cool projects...none bred...like sinaloan to pueblan or anulata, or anulata to eastern, or amaura to stuff,,and elapsoides to easterns.......none would cross....they knew better....(even tried corns to milks and kings got 0)...(the only one that did breed was stuarti x honurensis)...so...

anyways......patterns and colors very even in one spot in the wild...here in PA ,again, in the 90's...we would look for snakes in one spot...a small quarry with trash ....find garters alot....usually the checkered with or without stripes ones...some all striped and some all checkered...usually greens and yellow tints like normal easterns....but we founf a pair with orange stripes down the back....and pairs almost black overlayed.....so...even within a couple hundred yards ,,,snakes vary....

so good luck....

personally I hate ultramel stuff...they act stupid and wicked....flighty,,,bitey and just ...not cool....

.....
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........JY

Thanks and thanks for your honest opinion too, lol!
Here in my county a lot variation occurs, especially with rat snakes. We have solid black (only 15 miles from here), greenish or grayish right here, and yellow ones only about 15 miles south-east of here. The corns are also quite variable. Dark ones, some with dark stripes, and a few with lots of red (my favorites)!
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

That is a really nice corn.
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
"I fight knowledge with ignorance"HAHAhaha..............

Thank you!
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-