Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A mojo and a mystic make a potion. I think there are some mojo crosses from specials and crystals.
My question is, how do these work when bred to a lesser? Does a lesser x mystic also make a potion. I heard it makes a potion that is sort of yellow.
Thanks

Lesser Mystic/Phantom is a Leucistic. Ralph Davis produced those and calls them Karma.

The Lesser Crystal I've heard different things. From what I have gathered its particular lines that have produced Lesser Crystals...some being white snakes and some looking like regular Crystals.
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Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

>>Lesser Mystic/Phantom is a Leucistic. Ralph Davis produced those and calls them Karma.
>>
>>The Lesser Crystal I've heard different things. From what I have gathered its particular lines that have produced Lesser Crystals...some being white snakes and some looking like regular Crystals.
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>>Luke Martin
>> Bronze Serpent Reptiles

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This is my understanding as well although I do not know of an actual Mystic X Lesser being produced yet.

I know the Super Special (Baker line Crystal gene) is a type of BEL with a lot of orange faded patterning.

I would like to see an all white Crystal Lesser. Haven't seen that yet...

Given the fact that BELs are produced when breeding
Lesser to Mojave, Phantom, Vin Russo, Butter etc... I think it is safe to assume it would create the same when bred to a Mystic.

I believe Allen Belcher made an interesting combo with the yellow Mike was talking about when he bred Phantom to Vin Russo.

Anthony McCain recently made the Mystic Crystal.

Hope that helps Mike. Cheers!
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

Tom Harbin produced a cross between a butter x special pinstripe this season.
Maybe Tom can chime in with some updates.
Cheers!
John
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John Woolard Reptiles

I can share my clutch this year by crossing my Baker special/pin male bred to a butter female. The special/pin was the only male with her. I had only four eggs in this clutch. Results: 3 normals (unless they are ugly specials) and a special/butter/pin. When I saw it in the egg, I was disappointed that it appeared to be 'another white' snake. After it shed, the pin pattern is starting to come in in a shade of white. Under a black light, it really pops! I don't have any pics yet, waiting to let her size up a little bit before I do. She has had 3 meals and one shed so far. I plan to to some plain and black light photos soon. All in all, a pretty nice snake! Tom Harbin
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Tom Harbin
www.threptiles.com

Awsome and congrats Tom! I can't wait to see those pics!
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

Cool Tom! I made 2 Fire Crystals (Sulfur line Fire) last year and at first they looked like "another white snake "too. Well after they started growing the pigment got darker and the pattern alot more noticable. Now at about 8 months old or so the one I kept back is really neat looking with a very obvious pattern and alot of nice Yellow setting in, better looking than a Pastel Crystal in my opinion. So goes to show the Crystal stuff can and likely will change alot as it grows when you add other genetic stuff to them!

Take care Tom,
Anthony McCain

I just wondered if you could replace the mojave in these combs with a lesser and have similar results.

I have a mystic potion male, I bred him to a mojave and three lessers. I was hoping he was compatible with the lessers as well as the mojave. Eggs are due soon.
Thanks.

Maybe in another thread you guys could post some pics and a rundown on the potions, crystals, specials. I know I don't have a clue. Thanks

That's great Mike! It will be interesting to see what pips out in the lesser clutches I can't wait! I hope you get a few potions too!
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

Only issue I see breeding a Potion to a Lesser is that you will have to get some age on them to tell the difference between a Mojave Lesser BEL and a Mystic Lesser BEL as at first they will look about the same. As they mature I think the Mojo Lesser will become more of a white snake and the Mystic Lesser would have a slight yellow tint to it, and have more yellow/ less white in the head area. Will be interesting to see how close I am on that one.

Anthony McCain
McCain Reptiles

So, you don't think it will make a potion with a little different color.

You can make Potions with that Mojave girl yes, that and Super Mojaves, regular Mojaves and regular Mystics which could look alike and again be hard to tell apart (all this is why I stopped making Potions, 2 confusing at times what you even made with a Potion) . The Lesser will make 2 kinds of white snakes with a Potion paired with it. Both types will look like white headed Supers, very much alike at first I would assume. You can't make a Lesser Potion if that's what you were thinking, only room for 2 copies (Lesser and Mojave OR Lesser and Mystic /both white Supers). In otherwords you can't make a Lesser Mystic Mojave as that's 3 copies instead of 2 gene copies and because the 3 BEL genes are alleles there is only room for the 2 copies at that loci (think that's the proper way to say that lol). Just like you can't make a Super Lesser Super Mystic either (that would be 4 gene copies -2 lesser 2 Mystic and again being alleles only room for 2 , either Super Lesser, Lesser Mystic , or Super Mystic THAT'S it, nothing else possible)... Simple right, lol... True stuff either way man!

Anthony McCain
McCain Reptiles

I knew I couldn't get all three genes. I didn't know a lesser X mystic was a white snake. I was hoping it would be a little different version of a potion, by replacing the mojave part of a potion with lesser.

I should have asked this question before breeding the potion to the lessers. It will be interesting.
Thanks

Are any of these similar genes?? Like the mystic and phantom are basically the same gene but different lines right? What does the "special" make? Is a special the same as a spector or whirlwind?? These genes confuse me. I guess because they're not as mainstream as a lot of the other morphs. Chris

Originally, tom baker, bred a snake that he later called a crystal to a mojave and it produced a crystal. So a crystal is a double morph: special/mojave. To the three are not the same. Others have produced 'crystals' with their own type of crystals such as BHB. I don't want to call what I produced a pin crystal because the faded brown of a crystal didn't show up, only as various shades of white. It's a potent breeding snake but for now I'll call it a pin/special/butter. Tom Harbin Reptiles
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Tom Harbin
www.threptiles.com

Here are some pictures of a Lesser/Special. I produced this combo in 2007 but did not know what it was until last year when I produced a crystal. My original female looked like a mojave in pattern but not in color. I breed her to a lesser thinking she might be a phantom. The combo produced a white snake with yellow tint. In 2009 I paired one of these yellow tinted white snakes with a mojave and produced a crystal. I also produced the Super Special breeding that snake back to mom.

It looks like my line of special is darker than Tom's line. My line of supers is just amazing with the amount of orange in them. Of course I am biased but I think it is one of the best Supers out there.

I think some of the confusion comes from the snake Brian at BHB produced several years ago with a lesser. The assumption was that he was working with a snake like the Special. Sean at EBN has also produced a crystal looking snake with a lesser. Sean’s "Special" does not look like Tom's or my Special. Both of ours look very similar. I think it can now be stated that they have something different.

Looking at how the mojave produces a purple potion and the lesser makes a white snake with the phantom. I assumed Tom's special would also make a white snake same as mine. With Tom Harbin showing that this year the two lines of Special look to be very similar. Tom's lines produces combos a little lighter.

I have included two pictures one of the NoCo Reptiles line of Super Special and one showing the slight yellow tint of the Lesser/Special with a Lesser/Mojave.

Marshall
www.nocoreptiles.com