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Whats the new big morph in corns?

HerpZillA Jul 05, 2011 11:25 PM

Been out if the loops almost totally. I have no idea whats new in genetics? Scottish plaids? Jail house black and white stripes?

I'd love to see pics too. I do miss seeing a lot of herps. The shop I worked at was like pawn stars in some ways. You had no idea what was coming in. Example, One day a guy came in with a 3-4' BCI. I looked in the box and saw what I thought was am avg grayish BCI. Personally I like pink or golden BCI and very clean marking.

Long story short he got me to pop $40 even thought we had 12 boas. Then one guy said DAMN Tom where'd ya get the anery BCI. Then it click, there was absolutely no red on the tail. I ran over to the tank and tore off the $125 to do research. Some one came in from a show that heard we had one and he offered $600. The owner thought for a micro second and said yes. was a good sale and i got a nice at a boy and a nice dinner.

Ah yes that was fun.

SO,, whats new and pics please.
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Thanks for reading. Peace
Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Replies (31)

RichardHurtz Jul 06, 2011 09:40 AM

Tessera, and here's why...
Link

HerpZillA Jul 06, 2011 11:17 PM

I saw pics some years back but not that nice. That looks like some wild garter corn frankensnake. Outstanding. Now you know I;m going to look at prices lol

Thanks for the pic
-----
Thanks for reading. Peace
Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

DMong Jul 06, 2011 11:12 AM

Two heavy-hitter's in the corn mutation world would certainly be the "Tessera" corn, and if it is found genetically inherent,...the "Palmetto" corn.

Here is just about everything you would possibly need to know about the "Tessera" corn..............

Tessera Corn history

Graham Criglow (of Strange Cargo Exotics) bought a few odd looking 'Striped' Cornsnake hatchlings that KJ Lodrigue saw online a few years back in 2007. The pattern on these were very similar to that of a motley stripe corns except that they had well defined black borders surrounding the pattern. A male was sent to Don Sodenberg and KJ and Graham kept the rest. The three of them bred their males to 3 different unrelated female Extreme Okeetees and one normal Okeetee that was also het for stripe. One of KJ's & Grahams females laid 4 good eggs and these all had a normal pattern although this wasn't unusual given the small size of the clutch. The female het Stripe that Don Sodenberg bred his male to produced a clutch of babies and approx half of these were Tessera Corns, the rest had normal patterns with a couple looking like motley/stripe mixes. The other two Extreme Okeetee females also produced clutches and these were approx 50% Normals & 50% Tessera Corns. They are pretty sure that there is no stripe or motley in these Extreme Okeetee corns makeup. More breeding trials in 2009 will confirm what they think, that the Terrera gene is Dominant/Co-Dominant. In 2009 they will also be breeding Tessera to Tessera to check for a 'Super' form.

The name is derived because of the mosaic pattern, 'tessellate' means to form a mosaic pattern and tessera is one of the Latin roots for it. Tessera Cornsnakes will be available for sale in 2009.

Tessera Cornsnakes – The newest mutation and a new mode of inheritance?
~from “KJUN” on 8/2/2008

Let me start with a little bit of history on this new morph. I was lucky enough to come across a couple of odd looking “striped” cornsnakes for sale a few years ago. I pointed these out to a very good friend of mine, Graham Criglow, and we immediately did what it took to put them on my breeder rack. These were actually more of a striped-motley pattern than a striped one, but we were hoping to use these animals to make “Okeetee” stripes and/or “Okeetee” motleys. Obviously, there are no true striped cornsnakes with dark or black borders (and they are extremely rare in motley corns), but these had very well defined borders. As they matured, the borders remained black, and the snakes developed into fairly good looking “striped” Okeetee corns. Our original plans were to breed them into some of our “Extreme” Okeetees (aka “Abbott’s” Okeetees) to improve the red and orange coloration while maintaining the dark lines so rare in classically striped cornsnakes.

Once we got the snakes and could verify what we saw in images (and later breed them to unrelated females), there were many obvious characteristics that differentiated them from regular striped, motley, or striped-motley cornsnakes. This led us to believe that these snakes might be a new mutation and just not a new twist on an old mutation.
1. The black lines were obvious. These are never present on striped corns and are so rare on motleys that they can almost be ignored. The new snakes are more of a “lined” corn than a striped corn!
2. Lateral patterns were heavily checkered in a mosaic-like pattern. The best way to describe the lateral pattern is that is strongly resembles digital camouflage patterns. Normal stripes and motleys have the dorsal pattern absent or modified into a partial, thin, stripe.
3. Ventral scales were usually edged in black (similar to many “het bloodred” cornsnakes but darker and more obvious) and many had partial checkers over much of the ventral surface
4. Overall coloration was that of a NORMAL cornsnake. Striped and motley cornsnakes have a hypo-like appearance. These do NOT. They retain the beautiful coloration of a normal cornsnake while having a striped-motley like pattern with intricate sides.
5. The dorsal stripe was almost always complete from head to tail, and it does not yet seem to turn into a true motley or striped pattern when outcrossed. In most cases, the “stripes” above the spine are, at most, broken in only 1 or 2 small places.

Due to these differences, we began calling these snakes the “Tessera” cornsnakes because the mosaic pattern and colors really strike us. Not only are they visually pleasing, but they can be downright shocking in appearance. For those curious about why we call them Tessera cornsnakes, “tessellate” means “to form a mosaic pattern” and “tessera” is one of the Latin roots for it.

Anyway, the above differences were obvious enough that we thought we might have something new. We sent a male to Don Soderberg (South Mountain Reptiles), and Graham and I kept the rest. Between all three of us, males were bred to 3 different (and unrelated) “Extreme” Okeetees and one normal Okeetee cornsnake het stripe. One of our females laid four good eggs, and those few babies had normal patterns. The clutch was really too small to mean anything, of course. The normal female het stripe produced a clutch of babies, and about half of them were Tessera cornsnakes. The rest had normal patterns with a couple of odd motley/stripes mixed in. Believing this was related to the striped allele, we were not surprised.

However, the other two Extreme Okeetees also produced clutches that were composed of approximately 50% normal and 50% Tessera cornsnakes! That’s right: we produced Tessera cornsnakes by breeding a Tessera to two different, unrelated, normal Okeetee cornsnakes. We feel fairly confident that these two snakes are not het for stripe or motley, so this implies that the Tessera mutation is (1) inheritable and (2) not a recessive mutation! We will confirm this next year by breeding our Tessera cornsnakes to other cornsnakes that are known to not carry the striped gene and by checking these female Okeetees to verify that they are not het stripe.

Assuming these tests turn out as expected, we don’t know yet if this is a dominant or codominant (or incompletely dominant) mutation. The only way to know this is to check for a “super” form by breeding two Tessera cornsnakes together. Regretfully, that goal was not accomplished this season, but we should have the answer by the end of 2009! This may be the first known dominant/codominant mutation in cornsnakes! It’s about time, and it has all of us here very excited!

What is exciting about the mutation is not just the intricate new pattern or the consistency of the pattern from one individual to the next, but also that the striped-type pattern has a normal coloration without the hypo-like effect of the stripe and motley mutations. In other words, we may be able to make dark colored “striped” patterns: albino Tessera cornsnakes with two WHITE stripes down the back, dark anerythristic Tessera cornsnakes with two black likes that may look like they were drawn with a sharpie, ultramel Tesseras with dual purple-tinged lines on bright orange, hypo-colored, cornsnakes, etc. The potential of this morph is almost unbelievable! It truly is a whole new branch in tree of cornsnake morphs.

Updated:
Males will be $1200/each and females will be $1000/each as long as there is no super form.

Post by Jeff Mohr from cornsnakes.com forum on 6/30/11

The Tessera x any morph = 50% Tesseras het morph, and 50% should be Normals het whatever morph was involved.

Technically, if the Tessera morph does have a super form then all regular tesseras are "hets" but it does not work in the fashion as a simple recessive. All "het" tesseras are seen as tesseras and are seen immediately and there can be no other hets...i.e. het tessera.

The Super Tessera bred to anything would produce 100% "hets" aka tesseras.

The regular tessera (aka "het" bred to anything would produce 50% "hets" aka tesseras.

Also,below the Tessera photo is a link to Soderberg's "Palmetto" corn and it's origin..
Image
Image

-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

HerpZillA Jul 06, 2011 11:30 PM

Don't tell Don but I prefer the Tessera lol. Actually I'm good fiend of a guy that is very good friends with Don's brother. Practically making up related. The teessera is a real nice mix of colors.

the second looks like the retic pied. Also very cool. Nice to see real different looks with no hybrid.

I wonder if anyone mapped the corn snake genes and if there are the redundancies like in dogs? I spoke out of turn 1 time about different species of dogs and Mr. Spuckler spanked my knowledge base big time. Ok all dogs are 1 species. So I did some reading and actually saw a cool show on dogs about genetics and the long strings of redundant genes and I guess that is why we can have such great range in sizes and colors in dogs. There has to be a reasons some herps mutate more than others.

Very very cool stuff IMO

thanks for teh updates.
-----
Thanks for reading. Peace
Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

camby Jul 07, 2011 07:05 AM

Follow the link to Don's updated front page. Looks to be genetic

dc
South Mountain

disclosure Jul 07, 2011 07:39 AM

my god i wouldnt touch those things with a barge pole, its just another attempt to grab large amounts of money from a hybrid cross back bred to almost look like a corn, anyone can say wild capture to get round the whats the parents askers.

its a sad thing and very much the same as the white oaks crosses.

hybrids that are portrayed as pure.

camby Jul 07, 2011 07:49 AM

Ok "DISCLOSURE" put your money where your mouth is, provide a few pics of the hybrids you have seen that look just like this.

dc

disclosure Jul 07, 2011 08:07 AM

Ok, CAMBY , you provide some genetic history to prove they are Pure Corns and we will see about some photos.

drewby07 Jul 07, 2011 09:28 AM

I'd like to see ANYONE show some sort of "proof" that ANY corn is "pure". If you bothered to actually read the post on Don's site, you'd understand all the key factors that point to this being, in fact, a corn snake.

I'll also add, this sort of ridiculous post comes up EVERY time something new shows up. Par for the course I suppose.
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www.curiocreatures.com
--Drew

HerpZillA Jul 07, 2011 05:10 PM

that goes for a ton on animals not just snakes.

>>I'd like to see ANYONE show some sort of "proof" that ANY corn is "pure". If you bothered to actually read the post on Don's site, you'd understand all the key factors that point to this being, in fact, a corn snake.
>>
>>I'll also add, this sort of ridiculous post comes up EVERY time something new shows up. Par for the course I suppose.
>>-----
>>www.curiocreatures.com
>>--Drew
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Thanks for reading. Peace
Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

camby Jul 07, 2011 05:42 PM

Why should I or do I need to provide anything to you? I am not the one who came on here and accused people of being liars, suggesting they created a hybrid and over a long period of time cleaned it up so it could be passed off for lots of money.

In regards to your picture "proof" below. Soooo, you are telling me there is a snake in there? I will believe it for now, but honestly it looks very similar to the discolored and deformed snakes I have seen when an egg didn't develop fully and I cut the egg to see what was going on in there. Hey, but if it is in fact a morph you are hatching, then I sincerely wish you all the best and hope everyone recipocates your treatment of this morph.

I do agree with one of your comments and Drew's. HECK(tor), I can't guarantee any captively bred corn is pure except the ones I hatched from the wild caught pair I found myself (assuming the natural population in that area is pure). Only the person who catches a wc morph can feel reasonably sure it is a pure animal no matter the species.

It is always funny, when a new morph pops up, there is always some people who claim it is a hybrid and have no real basis to do so, but they just do so because they can. The internet affords such annonimity.

Doug, BTW, the normal hets look just like normal corns shoudl in pattern, color and body shape. Of course, I am sure Disclosure can point out all the hybrid markers in the wc okeetees, so these would likely present no challenge to his hybrid expertise.

dc

DonSoderberg Jul 07, 2011 09:12 AM

Tell me? How many snakes have you seen that look like the Palmetto? If you're saying this is obviously a hybrid, please, show us another species that looks like this? ?retic python? Following your logic, all white animals are hybrids of leucistic Texas Rats (i.e. bulls, ball pythons, E.diamondbacks, boas, LIONS, robins, fish, deer). Hence, all striped mutants (corns, kings, bulls, boas, pythons) are garter, ribbon, or Cal Kingsnake hybrids, all albino serpents are corn snake hybrids, all odd hognoses are hybrids of spotted or patternless mutations discovered in other species of wild types or borrowed mutations of similar species, all anerythristic or hypermelanistic discoveries are hybrids of ?indigos/black racers?, etc.??

While we'd all be blind not to see that humans CAN lie for personal gain, it should not automatically follow that when we see a $4K snake we cannot afford, the new- looking snakes MUST be a hybrid. If your logic is that the Palmetto reminds you of another species, show us what other colubrid is white with random and scattered indiscernible color scales or "paint-splats" AND how do you know that snake is genetically pure? Even if you were able to do that (impossible), how - from your monitor - can you say with such confidence The Palmetto Corn is "obviously" a hybrid? It has been verified by a non-reptile keeper that this snake was found on a lady's property in SC (sure, people can lie) and that she GAVE (did not sell) the snake to someone, but even if people automatically presume that's a lie, please, tell me what snake you have seen that would give rise to the Palmetto phenotype?

So, technically, any new look (or genetic mutation) in ANY species, you consider a hybrid until sufficient scientific data satisfies YOU? If that is the case, I'm not sure ANY snake morphs in our hobby are genetically pure - to your satisfaction.
Don Soderberg
South Mountain Reptiles

disclosure Jul 07, 2011 11:08 AM

More to come when the timming is right

JYohe Jul 12, 2011 06:00 PM

first thought was...it's a western hog....anaconda whatever the heck.....?...

not a corn...?...

so it don't count?...

....


.
.
.
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........JY

draybar Jul 15, 2011 04:38 PM

>>first thought was...it's a western hog....anaconda whatever the heck.....?...
>>
>>not a corn...?...
>>
>>so it don't count?...
>>
>>....
>>
>>
>looks dead too
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Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
Draybars Snakes

HerpZillA Jul 07, 2011 05:05 PM

Don in no way did I mean it was a hybrid. the stripe just reminds me of a garter. That was it. And as you may now your brothers friend has a retic that is almost all white with specs. That was it.

I was in no way trying to start anything, just they were both outstanding and VERY different. Especially if you have not been paying attention to whats going on for some years.

That;s it Don, please don't put anything more into it.
if I called then strange looking, I would not be calling them ugly just different. Nothing more than saying what I thought the first time I saw it.

That's it Don.
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Thanks for reading. Peace
Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

HerpZillA Jul 07, 2011 05:18 PM

If someone like Don, at his level of expertise was trying to play games with his snakes it would be like if Obama really did not get Bin Ladin. If bin laden shows up, Obama would be toast.

Don S has far to much to lose. PLUS he love his corn genetics more than anyone.

If I said something off the cuff like I did causes so many general CONCLUSION,, well,,, it's not my logic that is bad.

It is very different to say something as a knee jerk reaction, than a planned out conclusion of what they see.

I see the hybrid thing has gotten even more touchie than it was 5-6 years ago.

Maybe in a short time snakes can be mapped to stop the stupid accusations.
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Thanks for reading. Peace
Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

DonSoderberg Jul 08, 2011 11:22 AM

I didn't even read your post. I only read the one by Disclosure that said the Palmettos were definitely hybrids (as if all white snakes are hybrids). That kind of thinking isn't got for our industry, but saying Tesseras look like garter snakes is something ANYbody can see. Heck, I agree. In fact, they look more like some Calif. Kings I've seen that had both banding and stripes. I'm not at all offended by people exercising their rights to free speech, but when they make declarations without foundation, it ruffles my feathers (uuhhh, I mean scales)lol.

If someone says from seeing a picture on their computer monitor that they KNOW a new morph is a hybrid, I think there is an obligation for them to prove it - or cite founding proof thereof. Just saying that because it reminds them of something else is embarrassing. They should know that an albino hognose does not owe its' albino mutation to albinos of other species. Likewise, not all white snakes are hybrids of leucistic rat snakes. If we're going to put credence in that logic, all striped corns, bulls, kings, milks, etc. are hybrids of ribbon snakes - simply because they have a stripe down their backs that is not typical for that species. I think parakeet breeders from the 1950s would be astounded at the myriad different varieties of those. Likewise, guppies, cockatiels, gold fish, etc. They're called GENE MUTATIONS and they happen in ALL plants and animals. It's the very nature of Genetics and subsequent evolution. Any species that refuses to change their appearance to better survive in their environment has three choices; 1) relocate to environs that are more suitable for their appearance and/or behaviors, 2) Change their appearance and/or behaviors (i.e. adaptation from Natural Selection and/or genetic mutations, or 3) become extinct. Polygenic trait modifications and genetic mutations are nature's ways of allowing species to adapt to environmental or climatic changes.
South Mountain Reptiles

HerpZillA Jul 08, 2011 07:41 PM

>>I didn't even read your post. I only read the one by Disclosure that said the Palmettos were definitely hybrids (as if all white snakes are hybrids). That kind of thinking isn't got for our industry, but saying Tesseras look like garter snakes is something ANYbody can see. Heck, I agree. In fact, they look more like some Calif. Kings I've seen that had both banding and stripes. I'm not at all offended by people exercising their rights to free speech, but when they make declarations without foundation, it ruffles my feathers (uuhhh, I mean scales)lol.
>>
>>If someone says from seeing a picture on their computer monitor that they KNOW a new morph is a hybrid, I think there is an obligation for them to prove it - or cite founding proof thereof. Just saying that because it reminds them of something else is embarrassing. They should know that an albino hognose does not owe its' albino mutation to albinos of other species. Likewise, not all white snakes are hybrids of leucistic rat snakes. If we're going to put credence in that logic, all striped corns, bulls, kings, milks, etc. are hybrids of ribbon snakes - simply because they have a stripe down their backs that is not typical for that species. I think parakeet breeders from the 1950s would be astounded at the myriad different varieties of those. Likewise, guppies, cockatiels, gold fish, etc. They're called GENE MUTATIONS and they happen in ALL plants and animals. It's the very nature of Genetics and subsequent evolution. Any species that refuses to change their appearance to better survive in their environment has three choices; 1) relocate to environs that are more suitable for their appearance and/or behaviors, 2) Change their appearance and/or behaviors (i.e. adaptation from Natural Selection and/or genetic mutations, or 3) become extinct. Polygenic trait modifications and genetic mutations are nature's ways of allowing species to adapt to environmental or climatic changes.
>>South Mountain Reptiles
-----
Thanks for reading. Peace
Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

draybar Jul 07, 2011 06:03 PM

>>Tell me? How many snakes have you seen that look like the Palmetto? If you're saying this is obviously a hybrid, please, show us another species that looks like this? ?retic python? Following your logic, all white animals are hybrids of leucistic Texas Rats (i.e. bulls, ball pythons, E.diamondbacks, boas, LIONS, robins, fish, deer). Hence, all striped mutants (corns, kings, bulls, boas, pythons) are garter, ribbon, or Cal Kingsnake hybrids, all albino serpents are corn snake hybrids, all odd hognoses are hybrids of spotted or patternless mutations discovered in other species of wild types or borrowed mutations of similar species, all anerythristic or hypermelanistic discoveries are hybrids of ?indigos/black racers?, etc.??
>>
>>While we'd all be blind not to see that humans CAN lie for personal gain, it should not automatically follow that when we see a $4K snake we cannot afford, the new- looking snakes MUST be a hybrid. If your logic is that the Palmetto reminds you of another species, show us what other colubrid is white with random and scattered indiscernible color scales or "paint-splats" AND how do you know that snake is genetically pure? Even if you were able to do that (impossible), how - from your monitor - can you say with such confidence The Palmetto Corn is "obviously" a hybrid? It has been verified by a non-reptile keeper that this snake was found on a lady's property in SC (sure, people can lie) and that she GAVE (did not sell) the snake to someone, but even if people automatically presume that's a lie, please, tell me what snake you have seen that would give rise to the Palmetto phenotype?
>>
>>So, technically, any new look (or genetic mutation) in ANY species, you consider a hybrid until sufficient scientific data satisfies YOU? If that is the case, I'm not sure ANY snake morphs in our hobby are genetically pure - to your satisfaction.
>>Don Soderberg
>>South Mountain Reptiles

Hey Don,
I won't even try to add anything to what you've said I just wanted to say..CONGRATS!!! I just saw the update on your site.....exciting!!!!
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
Draybars Snakes

BlueKing Jul 09, 2011 01:27 PM

How many snakes have I seen that looks like a Palmetto???
Only one - and I wished corns or kings could look that way. And now you have that!
BTW: That snake would be the buttermilk racer - the only reason I say that, is because I've always like the random spotted appearance (but other than that, no resemblance). Remember that whitish looking cribo someone found a few years back. It also looked a like a Palmetto corn (pattern-wise only of course)
I've been overseas too long and just learned about your Palmetto corn.....
AWESOME - simply AWESOME looking animal. And it definitely looks 100% corn to me!
I guess I have a new favorite cornsnake now: PALMETTO CORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm also glad you got it instead of the wrong person!!!!
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

HerpZillA Jul 07, 2011 05:09 PM

I have never seen any hybrid colubrid look like either. All I meant by teh one tesserra was the stripe really made me thinnk og a garter. If Don got a garter to breed with a corn he is now a god. Please peopel dont read more into a silly reaction statement.

>>my god i wouldnt touch those things with a barge pole, its just another attempt to grab large amounts of money from a hybrid cross back bred to almost look like a corn, anyone can say wild capture to get round the whats the parents askers.
>>
>>its a sad thing and very much the same as the white oaks crosses.
>>
>>hybrids that are portrayed as pure.
>>
>>
>>
>>
-----
Thanks for reading. Peace
Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

draybar Jul 07, 2011 05:50 PM

>>my god i wouldnt touch those things with a barge pole, its just another attempt to grab large amounts of money from a hybrid cross back bred to almost look like a corn, anyone can say wild capture to get round the whats the parents askers.
>>
>>its a sad thing and very much the same as the white oaks crosses.
>>
>>hybrids that are portrayed as pure.
>>
>>
>>
>>

AND YOU are the expert?
Do You personally know the history of the snake/snakes in question or the people working with them?
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
Draybars Snakes

DonSoderberg Jul 08, 2011 11:30 AM

This snake was captured in the back yard of a lady's property. They previously killed one like it and decided not to kill this one. She gave it a the guy from whom I bought it. Hence, there is NO captive history on this snake. The babies are the exact size of average hatchling corns (10.6 inches and 6grams), they have the exact scale count of corns, they have NEVER opened their mouths except to yawn or eat, their body shapes are exactly that of corns. In other words, why anyone could say from looking at them on their monitor that they're surely hybrids makes me think of people that think any corn that does not look like a wild caught normal corn must be a hybrid. These snakes don't remind me of any other species - by appearance or behavior. BTW, Bill Love, Jeff Galewood (JMG Reptile) and many other experienced corn breeders handled this snake and ALL said it was a corn. When you have been around corns as long as we have, you don't need to see perfectly typical markings to say it's a corn.

This isn't a rant at you. Just throwin that out there for people like Disclosure that think a pure corn can have only one phenotype.
SMR

draybar Jul 08, 2011 08:11 PM

>>This snake was captured in the back yard of a lady's property. They previously killed one like it and decided not to kill this one. She gave it a the guy from whom I bought it. Hence, there is NO captive history on this snake. The babies are the exact size of average hatchling corns (10.6 inches and 6grams), they have the exact scale count of corns, they have NEVER opened their mouths except to yawn or eat, their body shapes are exactly that of corns. In other words, why anyone could say from looking at them on their monitor that they're surely hybrids makes me think of people that think any corn that does not look like a wild caught normal corn must be a hybrid. These snakes don't remind me of any other species - by appearance or behavior. BTW, Bill Love, Jeff Galewood (JMG Reptile) and many other experienced corn breeders handled this snake and ALL said it was a corn. When you have been around corns as long as we have, you don't need to see perfectly typical markings to say it's a corn.
>>
>>This isn't a rant at you. Just throwin that out there for people like Disclosure that think a pure corn can have only one phenotype.
>>SMR

It's hard to know exactly which responses are meant for which posts but I hope, Don, you didn't think I was asking YOU if you were the expert or if YOU knew the history of the Palmetto....I knew YOU knew all of that....MY post was towards "disclosure" for his bull about it being a hybrid...that is why I had his statement in my post, so it would be clear that I was asking HIM.
Maybe it wasn't clear enough.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
Draybars Snakes

DonSoderberg Jul 08, 2011 11:56 PM

Jimmy, you know better than that. Seriously, NO way in a million years I'd think you said anything derogatory about my stuff. No worrie, mate.

Don
SMR

draybar Jul 09, 2011 09:46 AM

>>Jimmy, you know better than that. Seriously, NO way in a million years I'd think you said anything derogatory about my stuff. No worrie, mate.
>>
>>Don
>>SMR

good...had me worried for a minute there...it does get hard to tell which responses are intended for which posts.
Anyway...CONGRATS on the tesseras and the palmettos.like I said before..EXCITING
OK, so when do we see the first tessera/palmetto???????
good luck, Don

Jimmy

DMong Jul 07, 2011 08:56 AM

Very cool man!......wow!, that specimen is even LESS speckled with colored flecking. Hopefully some more with be produced with yet more colored speckling as well.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

GerardS Jul 07, 2011 01:23 PM

No kidding! That thing is crazy looking. I wonder how variable that new morph will be. Very cool man. Did you hatch any normal looking hets in that clutch? MORE PICS PLEASE...
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
"I fight knowledge with ignorance"HAHAhaha..............

a153fish Jul 07, 2011 02:13 PM

I guess I thought that was the snake as a baby three years ago. That's cool if they did make more!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

cka Jul 10, 2011 07:33 AM

I really don't understand the purists line of thinking on the state of "hybrids" in the "pet" corn market. Really, what is "pure" anymore in a hobby that has been mixing and matching colors and patterns going on 40 years (or more)? My Tequila Sunrises got the dreaded "hybrid" tag years ago, and you know what, the naysayers are probably right. With Ultra popping up in the line they're certainly suspect...as ANYTHING ultra and ultramel based is suspect. This a hobby, not some scientific quest. The "is it or isn't it" ship has sailed a long, long time ago, and if your still standing on the bridge of that sinking ship, hope ya got a life preserver.

To Don, I hope this (and your other secrets lol) help set you up somewhat for future retirement. As one of the "frontrunners" of our community huge kudo's to you, man :*)

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