Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, maybe they weren't good to begin with but heres the story...I have 2 female alterna and 1 male. The first female and the male came out of brumation first, followed by the other female 2 weeks later. the first female bred right after her first post brumation shed as did the 2nd female 2 weeks later. They both layed their eggs 2 weeks apart. first cluth was 13 big eggs. Looked good then, still look good. 2nd cluth was from smaller female and she layed 14(at the time) good looking eggs. some mite still be good but fungus began pretty quick. Husbandry was virtually identical for both females. Does this just happen or does anyone have ideas/opinions why eggs bad? Dave

Eggs must be deposited within a window. Past that window, they die in the female. This is a common reason fertile eggs are dead when laid.

Your clutch appears to have one oviduct healthy and the other not. If you notice, one side still look good, the other doesn't.

But that is just a guess, as its only from a picture.

The basic terms of good or bad, also don't really help.

Snakes can deposit several different kinds. Like unfertilized ovum. Or dead fertilized eggs, or of course, healthy living eggs.

You must consider that a living egg can only die or hatch.

They can die inside the female as well. Usually if they die inside the female, they never fill up. Or become full. Unfertilize ovum and eggs that die within the female, do not fill up. or become firm. Of course, in most cases.

Interesting about the one healthy oviduct, would've never thought of that...even before they turned so bad they were clear when candeled as compared to red veins in others...Thanks. Dave.

"even before they turned so bad they were clear when candeled as compared to red veins in others"

Yes, that's just it. Many eggs can "look" good in the beginning for many different reasons, but viable ones that got fertilized by the sperm will develope veins as you mentioned if there is a viable embryo starting to grow inside within about a week or so. Of course they can also die much later on too for many reasons as well. Substrate too dry/wet, lack of oxygen, embryo defect(s), lethal gene that was never meant to be, etc...

Like you said, eggs that are not viable from the beginning will have a solid yellowish glow when candled. These will inevitably begin to go bad and smell after a while, even if still fairly plump with no visible fungus or dimpling yet. These are the ones I always toss that have no hope. I always cut these open just for the heck of it to double-verify they never had anything in them that was ever once viable whatsoever, even anything very, very small in it's beginning stages. I'll cut these and press the contents out to make sure there is nothing but solid yellow liquid before they are flushed. I have never been wrong even once when doing this. The funky smell bad eggs give off is very unique once you have experienced a few over time, and you can easily pick these single eggs out if they aren't part of the inner clutch pile. Most bad eggs from the beginning don't tend to stick together anyway, and lack the natural "glue" that good shells seem to have. They are usually soft and rubbery compared to firmer, leathery textured eggs too.

good luck with them!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yeah, I was gonna ask if he candled them and saw veins?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

always next year, but enjoy what you DO have left. Brish off that fungus fuzz as often as possible I'd recommend and aerate the eggs daily for a few moments. Looking forward to seeing how it goes!

" alt="Image">
-----
Jerry Kruse

UPDATED!
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Oh YEAH they defenitley got real moldy and such. I know that those SNAKE EGGS are not about to hatch ever. I have some that look green and shriveled up to. theres nothing you can do about it now it to late. dont give up. and dont cut them open any more either wait for MOTHER NATURE.

Maybe the male used up his viable sperm mating with the first female, who I assume still has a healthy clutch. By the time he mated with the second female he was low on sperm and therefore her eggs were not properly fertilized. I have a trio of pyros which the first female produced a great clutch which is hatching as we speak, but the second female bred three weeks later never even got gravid, although she did mate with the male (have photographic proof of locks!) Just a wild guess...so FR does not need to scold me for such a lame idea! LOL!
-----
Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Thats kind of what I was wondering. Did the male use up all his good stuff on the 1st female? They were together many times and then not much rest before he began with 2nd female. Strange, but certainly have enough eggs to keep busy. Any more pyros out???

Three are out and look great. The forth one is deformed and probably will be culled out. The fifth egg has pipped and two more to pip. Hope I don't get any more deformed ones.
-----
Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Well first of all, congrats Bob on (for the most part) a successful breeding and incubation. Those babies are smokin'! As far as the kinked one goes...that blows man - really sorry. Any idea why? Incubation temp issues?

I think the kinked one may be linked to the mama snake's genetic heritage; in the breeder's collection from last year he had one baby with a kinked tail, although not as kinked as this one. I will ask him if the kinked one is related to my mama snake. The good news is that mine actually has a functioning vent. When I carefully examined it in the light of day it pooped on me! I have a cat named Stubs who has a kinked tail, so I will keep this little snake and name it Stubz. I don't think it deserves a death sentence just because it has a funny little tail. Baby number five is almost out of the egg this morning and egg number six is pipped. I don't think the temperature is to blame as there were no spikes. As I said before, the first three babies are perfect.

Stubs the cat, lower right corner, with his brother and sister. In the litter of six he was the only one to come out with a kinked up tail. One of his sisters came out with a stub tail. They come from a colony of cats with some Manx influence. I guess I have a Manx snake! LOL!

Needless to say it will not be a future breeder, just another odd pet.
-----
Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

I had a few kingsnake eggs get really fuzzy with mold. I'd scrape it off each day - it would grow back. These eggs hatched just fine. I almost threw them out the first time it happened, glad I didn't.

Funny story, an old herper acquaintance of mine threw some ugly eggs into a pile of compost in his yard. Months later, he was using the compost and found empty shells with the characteristic slits of hatched eggs.
-----
Mark

>>I had a few kingsnake eggs get really fuzzy with mold. I'd scrape it off each day - it would grow back. These eggs hatched just fine. I almost threw them out the first time it happened, glad I didn't.
>>
>>Funny story, an old herper acquaintance of mine threw some ugly eggs into a pile of compost in his yard. Months later, he was using the compost and found empty shells with the characteristic slits of hatched eggs.
>>-----
>>Mark

I had a buddy of mine throw out a bearded dragon egg and found a hatchling dragon in his trash can when he went to throw it out......I won't throw a single egg away until it is shriveled up to nothing.....LOL
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

that is funny. haven't thrown anything out. Been cleaning mold/fungus with q-tip sprayed with fungicide. Dave.