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Yo Yo Frank...Bondo is for bonding..

Kerby... Jul 08, 2011 02:12 PM

Yo Frank, bondo is for bonding. Here is the deal. You say that kingsnakes do not each other because it is against their survival.....well.....you are flat out wrong. It is not about species survival...it is about eating each other....and they do it.

In the wild just about all species kill their own and a lot do eat each other....that is a fact! And kingsnakes are no different.

In the wild, kingsnakes DO EAT/KILL EACH OTHER

In the wild, bears do kill each other

In the wild mt. lions do kill each other

In the wild, fish are VERY cannibalistic! Yes, eating their own species....and they survive.

Insects/spiders eat their own.

And the list goes on........and on and on....

Kerby...
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Replies (14)

a153fish Jul 08, 2011 02:47 PM

now there you go listing a bunch of facts again1 Can't we just be one with the snakes, and have them tell us they prefer being in groups of potentially life threatening members of their own kind. You know, like in prison? Those guys seem to like being cooped up together. Sure sometimes a couple die, but that's life! There are no guarantees.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Kerby... Jul 08, 2011 02:50 PM

Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Kerby...
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FR Jul 08, 2011 03:22 PM

Well there you go. live is like a box of chocolates, unless you don't like chocolate, then its like a box of, nuts, i like nuts

DMong Jul 08, 2011 02:54 PM

exactly Kerby,....I stated the very same thing below in a post.

Countless snakes(and of course other animals) are killed, and/or consumed by their own kind ALL THE TIME, and it never puts a tiny dent in the overall survival of these animals whatsoever as a whole. It is a very natural occurrence that has happened constantly over the countless millenium of time.

I remember reading here were "someone" said that if they ate each other, there wouldn't be any...HAHAA!!

hmmmmm??, then why are there are still plenty of bears, lions, fish, and every other type of animal that is also very known to eat their own kind on occasion??......weird, huh?..

Flipping some boards and concluding this "NEVER" happens is only because they didn't SEE it happen under that board when they were on their hands and knees that particular day, or WEEK, not that it never did, or could never happen. Just like Jorge mentioned, if three were found under a board, who is to say there wasn't ever four under it at one time?

This whole silly argument is because they want to do this and save time and space, not because it is "best". Of course if they are together all the time you might get more eggs from ovulation not being missed,...SO FREAKIN WHAT???, that's because it is more about the "eggs" than the snakes anyway.

What "choice" do the snakes have anyway, they either have to

A) survive, or....

B) perish

This certainly can't be disputed logically, but I guarantee someone here will try.....they always do..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Kerby... Jul 08, 2011 02:57 PM

Those that have tried to use logic.....have failed miserably!

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.


DMong Jul 08, 2011 03:01 PM

.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

FR Jul 08, 2011 03:34 PM

heres the problem, your taking a wide generalization, and comparing it to a colony behavior within the generalization.

its like saying all people kill eachother, just look at wars and crime and such. Its proven, people kill people. So kerby and D how many people have you killed today???? People kill eachother, yes? Will you kill the next person that walks in your house? why not?

the breeders, mainly live in pairs and groups, hahahahaha whoops. And while these pairs fight and squabble, they normally don't kill eachother.

Same for snake colonies. If you watch longterm colonies, they are so friggin stable. It seems, once they are successful, they are not impacted like the naive individuals.

again, I have followed the same individuals for over thirty years, why isn't it dead, and why is it with the same mate for the entire time.

Ok, buddies, answer that? Then answer whats more important to a population, the stable part or the part living in chaos??????

Much of nature is chaos, but thats not what you want to duplicate.

or is it.

Kerby, try this experiment, I did this many times decades ago. hatch a clutch of kings, keep them together and keep them FED. Do the same with several groups. After a month, take one from one clutch and put it in the other. hmmmmmmmmm pick the ugly one. Then take one from that clutch and put it back in the other, also an ugly one.

This will teach you something, Its funny but what do you look for in your animals, genes, hahahahahahahahahahaha thats your interest, which is great, but those genes are Inside a living animal.

DMong Jul 08, 2011 06:10 PM

"its like saying all people kill each other"

You never saw me ONCE insinuate or suggest that whatsoever.

But in any case, it doesn't matter to me what, or how many kings are kept in groups by anyone. All that matters to me is the fact that I am very "in tune" with all of my different types of snakes and can also read them very well when I put them together. I have never had any incidence, and that is all that really matters to me....period. I have been observing snakes very closely for every bit of 44 years now, so nothing anyone does with theirs affects me any.

Anyone can plainly see that there is far more continuous animosity here on this forum than with ANY snakes every single time certain topics come up. That's really what all this always boils down to anyway.......it's certain people and the way they choose to conduct themselves here. The forum is for people that have snakes, not snakes that have people. Cats and dogs get along better than this forum does most of the time...

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

FR Jul 08, 2011 02:55 PM

No Kerby, your wrong, I did not say they don't consume eachother, not in the least.

I said, they live in pairs, groups and colonies that do NOT consume eachother. Those are two entirely different things.

Let me change up a bit, while building Audubon zoo in New Orleans, I have a chance to live in the south where there are speckled kings, which are known as snake consumers.

There were many places, but one inparticular by where I lived that I kept an eye on.

It was right next to the mississippi river. Anyway, there were lots of snakes there, lots and lots. Ratsnakes, racers, garters, coachwhips, milksnakes, canebrakes, and speckled kings.

On a nice spring mourning, I would park my car and climb the gate and walk down to old driveway, there was AC here and there, then an old tin building, with lots of tin and tin piles.

on the walk down could see, ten to fifteen kings. If I looked under the ac, I would find a whole bunch more. I would also see racers and garders most commonly. During the time I went there, I found the kings consuming other snakes on several occasions. but not eachother. Again, these types of things are not about one ate this, like one could eat the other and I am sure one will eat the other. Whats important is, what actually occurred.

They did not eat eachother, they ate other snakes. hmmmmm what does that mean? It does not mean it would never occur, its means under normal conditions, it does not occur. NORMAL conditions.

Later in the year, I found many gravid kings in that spot. But not in a single spot, just here and there.

now take pyros, I have places where I can go and find many gravid pyros in a single spot, two or three square meters. I found as many as four gravid females sitting TOGETHER. Most commonly two. I also find many in pairs. that is, an adult male, and an adult female, together for long periods.

Not to call you lairs, but I have watched these groups of pyros stay in the same spot with eachother, for several months a year. I took my kids, my family and we all saw and watched this.

That was years ago, when I was kingsnake guy. Then I became a rattlesnake guy, which is like a kingsnake guy, only you do not need to know that much because rattlesnakes use the surface many times more then kings, which means, they are out a lot.

with our rattlesnakes, we found them in pairs and trios, every month of the year. We also found females in some stage of reproduction, every month of the year. Which is really odd. But it is what it is.

Like other rattlesnakes, our montane rattlesnakes were in the highest density during the winter and were active and out, all winter. But not in dens, like other larger species.

We did this study for 18 years, and over the years we named sites, like the hotel, the resort, etc. We named them for a reason, as the names imply there were lots of individuals in small areas. amoung these areas, we had a couple colonies of pyros, with blacktails here and there. etc. Over the 18 years, we never recorded a individual from one site, at another site. hmmmmmmmmmmmm These sites were only dozens of meters apart in some areas.

We had babies marked, and followed throughout their lifes, often reproducing at very small size and age, many reproduced yearly, others not. or not every year, missing years here and there.

One fun observation was finding an adult male(one of the first ones we tagged) on its tenth year aniversery, 10 inches from where we found it the first time. of course during that ten years, he was found many times, in the general area.

Sir, enough of these observations, make what you think and others here, pretty much worthless. Sorry to say, I value them more then you.

So you want me to think of snakes by how you WANT to keep them. In a plastic box, hibernated in the winter, kept seperately, etc etc etc.

Yes, your snakes will eat eachother, but mainly because they are insane from captive restrictions. And if you think differently, your only thinking about you. Because there is no way in hack, any living creature can be completely boxed up(in plastic boxes), and stay normal. thats a very generalized thought, and a very accurate one. So judging them by whats in your boxes, well, all I can say is, good on you. or ain't that nice. Both of which mean something very different.hahahahahahahaha

so if you think they are whats in your boxes, you sir are very egotistical. Personally, I think they are what I see in the bush.

You know the old saying, if you keep doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results, that makes a fool out of you. Why not try something different and you know, actually learn. Are you tooo fragile to try????????

Tony D Jul 08, 2011 03:28 PM

Personally I think cannibalistic behavior is more about eliminating competition than eating.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

Kerby... Jul 08, 2011 03:31 PM

Either way, the result is the same..............a dead snake.

I do not proclaim to be a snake whisperer.....

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.


Bluerosy Jul 08, 2011 04:00 PM

Kerby,

I don't know much about cal kings. But i do know about the florida kings and hybrids of cal kings ect. So I am not telling you from experience with "cal kings" (ecept with hybridized cal kings) in large groups.. But with florida kings in large numbers, yes.. That is what i attest to. MY "GUess" is since the eastern getula are considered to be the more snake eaters than Cal kings.
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www.Bluerosy.com

deviney1 Jul 18, 2011 07:17 AM

I would have to agree with kirby here... I have a multi unit enclosure with two kings and six milks inside... Eight Compartments
All different species. This was my first enclosure, I am no carpenter so there are little cracks and even the door they can push out into another container. The fact is, it may not be the best constructed container but its large, lots of hiding places and room to move with water bowls that will fit there bodys in each. They will spend hours trying to squeeze through little spaces just so they can be with each other. The even crawl into each others water bowls, together. I spend alot of time trying to get them back into there own cages and they just end right back up inside with each other. Especially the females.

DISCERN Jul 08, 2011 04:57 PM

Thank you Kerby for your wisdom!

Sad that scientific facts are treated here like Kryptonite.
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Genesis 1:1

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