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he's about 28", maybe a bit more. I was surprised at how thinly built they are. For all the world, his build makes me think of masticophis, although he's not that active. Currently he's in a tub; he's pretty slender and I'm afraid he could get out of the gap between the glass panes in my 4x2 AP. I'll move him when he's a bit bigger.

I have a female too but A: she's in shed and B: she's not as pretty anyway. Not bad, just not as pretty. She's also a bit smaller, by about 5-10".

They're very active when handled, and squirmy. I wouldn't say they're aggressive or even defensive but they're very alert and frankly a bit of a pain to manage because they're so active. Interesting snakes. I'm keeping them on smaller prey; I offered the male an adult mouse and he couldn't get it down, so he's on hoppers for now. He is very adept and moving the substrate around in his tub. The times I take him out he seems to be good at climbing as well, although I'd heard they were more terrestrial.

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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
1.3 African House Snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
1 corn snake
4.3 Florida Kings
2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
1 Argentine boa
1 Texas Rat Snake
1 checkered garter snake

Nice carinata, and good observations! how old are they? I have always been under the impression that they are fairly heavy-bodied snakes - not sure where I got that though. Maybe they bulk up after they reach adult length..? I have seen that happen in other snakes - especially Chinese beauties, which (in my expereince) stay very thin until they are over four feet long, and then bulk up somewhat - females more than males.

That is a species I would like to keep some day, when I have more time and space for big cages...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

I don't know how old they are exactly; yearlings or less, I'm sure.

I'd bank on them bulking up when they hit adult length; that's what I've seen most snakes do--retics, boas, pits, etc all seem to do that. The pictures I've seen of adults seem to be fairly close in build to a bullsnake, which is what I'd term a middle of the road build. Not thin like a coach whip, not thick like a ball python. Decently girthy

I'm not sure what size cage they'll go in eventually. Sort of depends on my observations and their size. 4x2 or 6x3 probably, but couldn't say for sure yet. Like I said info on adult size is *really* conflicting.

I have to say they're my first old world rat--hell, come to that the only new world rats I've kept previously are corns!
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.

Yeah, it seems like pics I've seen of adults looked about as girthy as adult bullsnakes - good comparison there. That would be a "heavy-bodied" ratsnake IMO, although as you said not thick like pythons or boas. I know what you mean on conflicting info on adult size, but seems like I've heard they can get pretty big - for a ratsnake.

They seem like an interesting species to me - one reason being they are one of the species still considered Elaphe, and (to my knowledge) there have not been any new proposals to move them into different genera. Another interesting thing IMO is their semi-elliptical pupils - interesting for a ratsnake.

I have kept a few Old World species, and two are also still considered Elaphe; Elaphe dione and Elaphe bimaculata. Both are very interesting species, but with very different temperaments - in my experience. I have found most dione to be very mellow and inquisitive while most of the bimaculata I have kept have been flighty, musky, and sometimes nippy. I wonder how carinata compares to those two species, as far as handling...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Hi, Toby.

Carinata is still in the Elaphe group, but I'm sure DNA studies in the future will erect a new genus for it and it's close allies, quadrivirgata and davidi. It's natural history and unique morphological characteristics make it to be very different from dione and bimaculata.

Carinata is one of those part ratsnake, part racer, Asian ratsnakes, like many of the other Asians. Notice the ridge above the eye. The partially elliptical pupil is similar to Pseudelaphe flavirufus. Could be they are mostly nocturnal. Remember, southern China has brutally hot and humid summers. Carinata also has hypopophyses (sp?), which are bony projections in the throat for breaking up bird eggs. They are snake-eaters too, and have heavily keeled scales. Behaviorally, they are a bit like racers and probably have a pretty high metabolism. They get pretty large and should challenge your bimaculata as the queens of musk.

I'm mostly interested in carinata for the taxonomy, but am hoping to pick up some davidi someday to work with. Gidi has davidi now. Carinata would probably do well in hot, humid TX though...

Terry

>>Yeah, it seems like pics I've seen of adults looked about as girthy as adult bullsnakes - good comparison there. That would be a "heavy-bodied" ratsnake IMO, although as you said not thick like pythons or boas. I know what you mean on conflicting info on adult size, but seems like I've heard they can get pretty big - for a ratsnake.
>>
>>They seem like an interesting species to me - one reason being they are one of the species still considered Elaphe, and (to my knowledge) there have not been any new proposals to move them into different genera. Another interesting thing IMO is their semi-elliptical pupils - interesting for a ratsnake.
>>
>>I have kept a few Old World species, and two are also still considered Elaphe; Elaphe dione and Elaphe bimaculata. Both are very interesting species, but with very different temperaments - in my experience. I have found most dione to be very mellow and inquisitive while most of the bimaculata I have kept have been flighty, musky, and sometimes nippy. I wonder how carinata compares to those two species, as far as handling...
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>>-Toby Brock
>>Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

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Conserving reptiles by helping to protect habitat...
www.ratsnakehaven.com
www.scenicsantaritas.org

They look more like pituophis than masticophis IMO.

Like old world relatives...
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6.7 pituophis c. annectans
1.1 senticolis t. intermedia
1.1 rhinechis scalaris
1.2 lampropeltis m. thayeri
2.1 pantherophis g. guttatus
1.1 lampropeltis t. campbelli

1.1 turbo corns
1.1 jungle corns
1.1 thayeri hybrids (het albino)