Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Was wondering what the general opinion of Roswells is looking like these days? I know that were produced by Heather Martin and are a Co-Dom animal , similar to hypomels and actually produce visual hets when bred to a non Roswell and "super" forms that have an amazing reverse stripe that is only achieved by Roswell X Roswell breedings. Is that going to ALWAYS happen with the supers? Im a little confused how that would come out of two animals that don't have striped patterns?

They started in 07, so the market with them has a LOT of potential... the first sunglow 100% het anery Roswell "het" was just produced, for instance. Im also curious if anyone is selling any female "hets" that actually have some age on them, like 2-3 years old?

Just wondering if the future of them looks bright or is this a project most aren't entering , and curious why that would be? Im trying to decide if trading a moonglow for a hypo het anery 66% albino is a reasonable trade at this point in the Roswells short existence?

Any info or opinions would be taken as such and I would appreciate anyones input, Sorry for a bunch of questions!!! Thanks guys!!

jamess

I would do that trade in a heartbeat Jamess... You have other moonglows, that Roswell het is valued much higher than moonglows at this point, and Phillips animals are awesome... I have a few... And was unsuccessful at making a trade with him for that same animal he wanted a moonglow and I missed on them this season...
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http://s1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff495/Tat2darin/

I also agree with Darin, I would do that trade in a second their is alot of potential to be done with them, I will be breeding my BWC to my Roswell Laddertail female this year. The project is young and lots to be done with it as long as you think outside the box.
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Brandon Nixon

Darin, thanks for the response!! I was going to text or call you about your opinion, funny that you replied here first! Thanks for your opinion!!! Good luck with the Atlanta Repticon , hope you're doing well with that!!! Your moonglows will come soon enough man!!

BNixon, thanks for your opinion too!! I just wasn't sure if the prices Ive seen were the actual value, you know, since there really aren't any online to compare. Appreciate your opinion!!!

Thanks!!!

jamess

What concerns me is that noone is selling Super Roswells. They are trying to milk the het Roswell market for every penny while they can because they know the bubble will bust. Also, there are those who are hording Supers, and they are going to release them all at the same time on the market at a high price. This will further drive het prices down, because people will run out for Supers instead. My opinion is that it's not worth it right now to buy a neonate het Roswell at the current prices.

Not to be combative here but, I think there are only six or seven Super Roswells on the planet. I'm pretty sure that no reasonable person would consider the existence of what is certainly less than ten animals "hording" even if they were all in the hands of one person.

The future for the entire Roswell project is a bright one. The tip of the iceberg is all we see right now. I look forward to making more in the future myself...

Here is an Albino Rosley or Roswell Motley just for fun:

and a Roswell Motley littermate or Rosley.

I say go for it James!
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

I agree with you Jeff it is highly unlikely anyone is hording them as there are only a few of them that have ever even been produced and even fewer people that have the possibility to make the supers.

I know of one breeder who attempted breeding his male super this year to a Suri female and she didnt take. I believe that to be because she wasnt an older mature female and this would be her first year of maturity for breeding.

The project is young and possibilities are limitless as you can see by the Motley RLT's and Albino Motley RLT's that Jeff put up pictures of.
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Brandon Nixon

My comment was not directed towards you. However, I do feel there are more than a handful of Super Roswells. I'm not saying there are hundreds though.

This takes away from my main point though. Prices for het Roswells are about to drop like a rock after this season. A lot of people are rushing to produce them, and they're already some at $1495 a PAIR in the classifieds. That's 66% less than they were last year. I'm just saying I personally would wait until prices stabilize before running to get one. I'd rather let the other guys take the depreciation hit. That's just my opinion.

I think there might be 3 maybe 4 people tops who might even have the animals needed to make Super Roswells prior to this season.

Certainly nobody has produced or is producing large numbers of Super Roswell's and holding on to them . . . . . .
. . . . that's fantasy.

The Roswell project is Wide Open, only your mind limits the possibilities !

. . . . . . . . . .

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

I only know of two people who have adult females, and neither of those guys are the "hoarder type". "Hoarder type"... LOL I guess I am that type... LOL but alas, an adult female isn't in my hands either...
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

...those two people that Jeff mentioned, I can personally attest to the fact that the idea that large numbers of Super Roswells are being produced and hoarded is a completely fabricated fantasy with absolutely no basis in reality whatsoever.

I probably have more Roswell stock than anyone else on the planet, including Heather's two original adult females, and I have not even attempted to produce Supers yet. The few Supers that have been produced to date (I believe Jeff's guesstimate of 6 or 7 is right on) have all been produced by breeding littermates from Todd Smith's 50% Suriname albino litter of ~2004(?) back to each other. Heather Martin produced the first Super in 2007, and two more in 2008 (I have both of the 2008 Supers). No Supers were produced in 2009 that I know of. Another breeder produced probably 3 or 4 Supers in a 2010 litter, again by crossing siblings from Todd Smith's litter. This was a good breeding to have done as it further confirmed the genetically heritable nature of the Roswell morph. However, I also believe that, fortunately, the few of us who have had the ingredients required to make Supers during the past two to three years recognized that continued inbreeding to crank out more Supers faster would ultimately not be good for the animals or the project, and so have instead focused on outcrossing with an eye toward producing more Supers further down the road.

I have a 2009 albino Roswell-laddertail (RLT) that is only 50% related to the original females, and I will probably try breeding him to his aunt next season - this as far as I know would be the first breeding of outcrossed RLT to RLT. The need to continue outcrossing before breeding RLT to RLT to produce more Supers will continue to limit the production of Supers going forward.

Those are the facts. But perhaps it is more entertaining to contemplate the vast hoards of Super Roswells stashed away in secret bunkers deep underground at Area 51.....

Steve Reiners

www.BoaMorph.com

In my Mayan boas I've bred two different (littermates to each other) males to their aunt (same female two years in a row). I got more slugs, kinks, dish-shaped heads, smaller "runt" animals, as compared to line-bred (son to mother) and inbred (brother-sister) litters both tries. I don't recommend that mix, myself.

Any theories as to why? Has that female produced other litters with better results, or could these results have been caused by something strictly about her?

I do have the option of breeding son to mother available, and would certainly consider it if there is reason to think this is a more reliable combination than nephew to aunt. Offhand, it would be surprising to me to get consistently, measurably different results from these two options because mom's and aunt's genetic makeup would be quite similar. If anything, if one result proved statistically superior to the other, one might expect the better result to be with the aunt because the aunt's genetic makeup would be a bit less like the male's than his mother's is. Perhaps there are factors I'm not considering.... Interested to hear anyone's thoughts/experience on this.

Steve Reiners

www.BoaMorph.com

That female was originally bred to totally unrelated het T snow and I got (I think) three born dead in that litter, but no kinks, or visible abnormalities. I used two different full brothers on her the next two consecutive years and got similar results("no-tongue"/dish-heads, weak feeders, etc.), even though I've used those same males to outbreed with getting mostly normal results. I had virtually no problems in the line-bred litters, and only one with kinked tail and one with kinked back in two brother-sister breedings (one in each litter of approx. 18-20, if I remember right). And, the parents of the males used were very unrelated (het sunset to Mayan Nic'), so I figured it safe to inbreed to see if I got "supers" (which I now know I did not). It could be tied to that particular female, but I'm doubting that's entirely it.

Thanks for a little more insight into your Roswell plans. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I just know what I witnessed in the Motley market early last decade. People rushed to crank out Motleys, and look where their value is now. I'm glad you are proactively out-crossing your stock though.

The difference is not everyone owns a Roswell Laddertail.

Just about EVERYONE I know has a Motley. The reason why the motley market is where it's at is most likely because people just bred them to anything just to make more.

Premium animals will always deserve premium prices. Selective breeding goes a long way for any project.
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Brandon Nixon

Looking at history though it seems like it will repeat with the Roswells.

If I'm not mistaken, the Motley project got started seriously around the year 2000 with only TWO male Motleys. In the 10 years since then, they have spread everywhere and are inexpensive.

Now look at the Roswell project. Their serious launch date was what, 2007 or 2008, and there were greater numbers of het Roswells than the Motleys started off with. So we are at year 3 or 4 into the Roswell project.

Co-dominant morphs explode exponentially in numbers, which is why in my opinion they are not worth getting into early on unless you have sub-adults or adults already.

The difference was that people had accidently had gotten into the project and made the animals from the Suri/Col het Albino cross. In a way alot of people got lucky in the beginning and got in on the project before it was more than a prettier albino.

Their are still few people that have produced these animals and as usual selective breeding will go a long way if you just breed to produce the genes it will show.

As far as not getting into it unless its sub adults or adults I would disagree, I personally prefer to get my animals as babies or yearlings at the most and raise them to breeding size/age.

I think that a project is only limited by your imagination and quality will speak volumes. That goes for this or any other project.

Granted pricing has to be realistic but there is a point where you need to make sure there is a demand for your product and your not just making numbers. Especially with the morph stuff if you have to much the market will be saturated.

As far as I know their have only been 3 or so litters of Roswell Laddertails this year, Robert McPhee, Philip Pruden and Jeff.

Doesnt sound like their is a saturation and all breedings were done differently to make different projects and as Steve hit on hes holding off on making Supers. I believe the other individualts with those animals will also hold off on making supers.

I myself have an unrelated pair and personally dont plan on ever making my own supers.
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Brandon Nixon

That's encouraging to hear! Maybe I'm just being too pessimistic after seeing the history of Salmons, Motleys, and Co-dom morphs over the past 11 years. It's nice to see more people breeding for the "right" reasons and not just to flood the market. I myself have changed my plans on future projects to make what I really want instead of just getting something out to market.

Yes, encouraging, but we also know there will be some who breed to any boa large enough in their collections to mass produce while the money is good. And, another downfall to the market is when right off the bat people breed to make 5 gene combos...at least Stone is trying to slowly release PD projects to help preserve the long-term value of that project. Another thing is when EVERYONE just copies other people's projects and they all hit the market at once...a good start thus far on Roswells, but...
Yet, I still think it's one of the better boa investment morphs

I was just curious if the hypo 100%het anery 66% het albino Roswell Lattertail was equivalent in price/ value to a moonglow roughly the same age ( neonates) because I knew the price of a moonglow these days but not the RLT's. Thats all.

As far as what I'll "run out " and breed it to when he( the RLT) is ready... I think if anyone knew me enough they could tell you I have sat on my collection and specifically paired up the animals I have over the last 5 years before EVER breeding or producing a single baby! With that said, I have to agree COMPLETELY with what Manny is doing with the heavier concentration of BCC blood back into the Roswell project!!!!(YES, I KNOW PERUVIANS WERENT USED FOR THE ORIGINAL ROSWELL PROJECT,BTW)! His hypo Suriname female is AMAZING!! Wish I had her here, regardless of the Roswell project. lol.

But, I think the Possible TH RLT paired to one of my 75% Peruvian Hypo females would be an awesome Project!! For one, no one but myself has produced Peruvian Hypos with this much BCC blood in them, not to mention, I haven't sold any either so Theres no "flooding" the market with them.Given time, there will be 87.5% hypos from unrelated Peruvians,next. On top of that, The fact that I could have the chance to produce Super Hypo Super Roswells in the future is pretty badass! But, in reality, there are near endless possibilities for the project and its future. Thats another reason I think Its important to know who you're buying your boas from as well as pay the extra money to start with above standard animals!

So, I understand there will be more and more RLTs out there by that point, but if you do selective breeding projects, and ones that you're honestly into, you'll never feel "cheated" by the market. Sure, others can do what you've done. But, again.... its up to you to do what you want. If you're only this for money and financial return... you should have picked a different hobby! IMO

jamess