Reptile & Amphibian Forums

These are the babies after shedding from the 2 different lavendar parents. By the way it was the females first clutch and I was surprised to receive a 2nd clutch of 8 more eggs. I think I may hold back a male to breed back to his mom.

--Dennis

Cool Dennis! Did you post pics of the parents before? My memory sucks. Post them again, if you could, I didn't know there were 2 different Lavender genes?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Would like to see pics of the parents as well.

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Yeah I did post them before, but don't mind doing it again. The banded one is the female.

Thanks for looking, Dennis

There colors look almost identical to me?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

>>There colors look almost identical to me?

I agree.....they don't look like different morphs but apparently they are......unless there was retained sperm from a previous breeding.........maybe........but if never bred before I'd say two different genes......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Yep, it was the first breeding for them both.

--Dennis

>>Yep, it was the first breeding for them both.
>>
>>--Dennis

Then....if she was NEVER with any other male this year or last it looks like the parents are expressing two different mutations that look very similar......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Then there is the possibility of parthenogenesis..............I guess........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

wouldn't they all be albino then though?
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.

>>wouldn't they all be albino then though?
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>>We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.

I dunno......lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Wow, I can't see the difference at all. You must have been shocked to see a normal head piping.
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thats REALLY cool man, id wanna keep the whole clutch and proove out Both mutations maybe produce a yet unseen double homozygot! FUN STUFF!
big congrats man and good luck w/them.

,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Does anyone know, (maybe Kerby) if jointly, the two forms of lavendar would be a deeper color of lavender or maybe more purple looking?

--Dennis

I sort of doubt that you would see any noticeable difference in a double homozygote, since both look extremely similar in those adults, but who really knows..*shrug*. The babies would likely be very purplish though because of the much thinner skin and scales and you would see their blood tissue inside. As they would mature and the scales became thicker, they would "probably" look undiscernable from either parent I would imagine, but again, not certain since I don't know of any other double amel mutants off the top of my head.

It will be very interesting to see what pans out with future breedings of the offspring, that's for sure.

best of luck with those guys!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I meant to say double lavender mutants, not "double amel mutants"

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Isn't lavender considered T positive Amel?
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Yes, a T-positive "albino" of sorts, but in my opinion the term really is best not used with the term "amelanistic" to avoid confusion with any t-negative amel(albino) in the hobby. The whole t-positive amel/hypo thing is confusing enough as it is..LOL!

The whole "t-positive" thing is EXTREMELY complex and hard to get a handle on anyway. They can vary GREATLY from any strain of any species/ssp. in the hobby and visually be anything on a scale from 1 to ten with their hues and intensity. For example a so-called "t-plus" Speckled king(fairly dark brownish purple) to a lavender Cal. king (which are very light lavender/lilac)...

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

And what would a "blonde" be then? To me they do look like T

thanks,
David

That's a tough one because they look more hypo as adults, but as juveniles they look T positive. I see them as T positive. What do you think Doug?
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That's a very good question you guys. I honestly don't have the answer. It's really tough to say exactly when certain forms of either one stop being one type and become the other, or vice-versa.

When only the enzyme tyrosinase is present and zero amount of melanin is allowed to be synthesized(true t-plus) it is a bit easier to distinguish and classify, but when varying amounts are allowed to be processed by the cells into small amounts of melanin, this is where the head-scratching occurs as to what they would be more accurately termed.

Also, it all depends on the actual quantity of tyrosinase present in the cells to begin with as to their specific looks too. This in itself and combined with how much tyrosinase the cells allow to leach in and mix into actual melanin is what is so impossible to get a handle on. Like I've said many times before, the more we understand, the LESS we actually know about certain things.

I submit to anyone here to start researching some of this "L-dopa" testing, "tyrosinase" pre-cursor protein, melanin synthesis, hypomelanism thing as I have in the past, and then see how many answers regarding this topic you are then CERTAIN of..LOL!. This is when you will simply slap a label on the deli cup to the best of your human ability and simply ride with whatever it happens to be..LOL!!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

hahaha ok I see what you are saying here. Thanks for that detailed description. It just made things more confusing. lol
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yep!, and it will always be this way I am betting until there is a little machine of some sort that is invented some day that is similar to the ones for diabetics where you simply polk the skin and test for it..LOL!

Going buy looks alone just doesn't cut it with certain things..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yes, that is true. I see your reasoning behind that now.
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Yeah, the term "amel" should ONLY be reserved to describe animals with ZERO melanin. At least that takes care of ONE problem anyway..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com