Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey All,
I have followed the forums for a long time but first time posting hoping you guys can help. Last week I purchased two Brooks kings at a reptile show. I set them each up seperately and gave them three days to acclimate before offering a small mouse to each. Each snake ate the mouse with no issues. I waited 4 days and offered another small mouse. Both snakes took and swallowed these as well. I checked on them two days later and both had regurgitated the mouse and the female was dead. the male is still alive but not looking well. I have kept the temp at 70 at the low and 80 at the high. They were on aspen but have sinced moved the male to paper towels to check for defacation. Usually I would feed a snake a medium mouse at their size but, was giving smaller than usual meals for the first three weeks. Sorry for the long post, but was just trying to give you guys as much info as possible. I have other kings and never had any problems. Any help would be great.
Thanks
Eric

Where did you get the mice from? Were they kept (the mice) on cedar shavings by any chance? Were they exposed to No Pest Strip?

I would go 85 as a hot spot with new snakes. More heat helps them when stressed, as long as you also have a cool area in the cage.

I have heard of snakes getting so stressed during a move that they get high bad bacteria loads, and the cool temps you kept them at doesn't help them fight it. Don't know if this is it but it is possible. Keep this in mind for next time. 80 deg is a maint temp, not a sickness fighting temp.

I would question who you got the mice from. You may want to ask the seller of the snakes about it as well. You are doing this not to blame (at least not until you have some data). You may not get a warm reception, but ask anyway. Good luck. These kinds of experiences suck but also help you look for warning signs on future purchases, and will influence you to buy your feeders from known good sources. And go higher than 80 deg.
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Mark

You don't have to go 85-88 deg all day and night. Even offering just 4hrs a day of high temps is fine. They really do use it at times.
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Mark

>>Were they exposed to No Pest Strip?

During all my years breeding hondurans and other Colubrids I used pest strips routinely. There was always a relatively fresh one kept in each of my two rooms. More recently i have a pet baby splendida and found mites that i think were coming from the substrate (pine shavings). This snake was in a small plastic terrarium and i aired-out a pest strip for several days, then cut out a couple-square-inch piece of the rubbery strip and set it directly on top of the ventilated lid. The mites are gone and the baby splendida has become a very robust subadult in just three months. I also bred birds for two decades. One of my specialties was the Gouldian Finch, which falls prey to "air sac mites" that inhabit the hollows in the birds' bones, making the mites harder to access and eradicate. I'd put afflicted birds in a small cage, put a pest strip on top of the cage, and cover it with a towel to confine the fumes. If the bird was "on the nest" i'd sometimes move the nest with hatchlings into this treatment regimen along with the parents. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but i never saw an adverse reaction to this use of pest strips for either birds or snakes.

Actually I meant the mice, as in the chemical gets on the mice and ingested by the snake. Saw this happen once to the detriment of the snake. They had a pest strip right above the mouse colony.

Usage as you described is sensible.
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Mark

It sound like they were kept a bit too cool and the prey putrified instead. It would have been better if they were kept at something like 75 on the cool end and 84-87 on the warm end and make sure they use the warm end with hides placed there too. The warmer side is what is most important and that they use it to properly digest.

You need to keep the one that is still alive in a SMALL environment in the 85-87 degree range for a week or so to help raise it's metabolism to help fight off the poisoning from remaining bacteria in it's gut now. Also, a dose of Flagyl(Metronidazole) at the rate of 50 mg/per kg. of body weight would help kill the bad bacteria pronto!. If you cannot do this I would STRONGLY urge you to take it to a vet ASAP! to get this done NOW!

NO FOOD should be offered until at LEAST a good week or so AFTER the last Flagyl dose so the snake can replenish it's vital acids, electrolytes, enzymes and gut flora before being fed again. And when it IS fed again, they should be VERY SMALL meals for a while to make certain they stay down and are digested properly, you cannot afford for this to happen any more whatsoever.

After several VERY small meals, you could GRADUALLY increase the size back to the size prey it was normally eating.

Sometimes snakes develop this from fouled water too, so who knows, but I would bet a dollar to a donut some Flagyl at the proper dosing will take care of this. Flagyl is very reptile friendly too. I just hope the remaining one isn't too weakend from the poisoning affect of the bad bacteria from the rotted meal.

good luck with this. I sure hope the remaining floridana can pull through this.

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Thanks for the help guys. I really appreciate the advice. I'll increase the temp immediately and contact the vet first thing tomorrow. I have contacted the breeder just for ideas or advice but he has yet to call back. Thanks again
Eric