Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Thanks for the expansion, Billy. You dotted my "I's" and crossed my "T's".

I want to clarify something and add to what I just said though. I have ZERO problem with the prices of BP's and Hogs. I'm glad for it. If people want, and are willing to pay for them, great. Those markets are strong, and very popular, as was the colubrid market in years past.

A reoccuring topic that often comes up as a "blip" on the radar screen here, is the very frequent "Hey are you gonna be at Daytona this year?". Or "have you been to any good shows yet, this year?". Etc etc. You all get the idea.

My point is this: Clearly, EVERYONE that participates in these exchanges - whether it be Rainer, Jeremy, Kerby, Doug, Jorge, Thomas and Gerard (to name just a few) or whomever; pretty much all the "regulars" on this forum, in spite of their sometimes heated debates on feeding and husbandry issues, share this one very important concern. Successful, profitable, and jam-packed reptile shows. This is (I believe) what we ALL want and agree on inspite of all the other distractions that get everyone worked up and ready to go to war with eachother. Haha! It's true. We all want the colubrid market to kick ass like it used to. I think it wouldn't hurt if we took the time to try and duplicate what it is that's making these other markets so successful. The difference is, we ALSO have the passion and appreciation for all the facets of what we do and the animals we prefer. In that regard, we have something at least the majority of BP breeders and collectors do NOT. And this is an advantage to the colubrid enthusiasts as a whole.

Everyone should be thankful for those who are attempting to push the colubrid market forward as it relates to new and different morphs. All other differences aside, guys like Jeremy, Rainer, Kerby, Zenny and SO many others, are a benefit to our collective interests in our beloved hobby. Whether your a purist, an idealist, a fulltime breeder/capitalist, or a recreational hobbyist, we ALL have a valid place here and should work together to promote eachother's success...AND equally, if not more so, our animals we all love and tirelessly care for.

Our success is not measured by how much money we make. It is measured on an individual basis, person to person dependant on his/her goals and personal acheivements no matter what that may be. Above all though, we must always put our animal's health and well being before any aspirations of personal gain. Here's to FR. Cheers. *CLINk*

Whether your a purist, an idealist, a fulltime breeder/capitalist, or a recreational hobbyist, we ALL have a valid place here and should work together to promote eachother's success...AND equally, if not more so, our animals we all love and tirelessly care for.

WOW... JUST WOW
i bow to you sir.

the humbled,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

LoL! Shut up dude.

Thanks

Great post Micah......I agree 100%......

I like all reptiles.......I enjoy locality animals, natural phenotypes, line bred animals, morphs and even some hybrids.....

But....If we ever want the colubrid market to be like "it used to be" or even come close to the other reptile markets then the colubrid breeders need to quit bringing down the market by cutting their prices just to move out animals they don't want to care for for a duration of time.........

If there isn't a market there, don't produce so many then wholesale them out......that saturation only results in a failing market.......

Or.....Raise those little ones up and sell them as subadults or adults........

I know this will never happen though......It is only a pipe dream.......LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

That's also true John, and good point. Apparently though, it looks like only me, you, and Thomas are gonna unite.

And Thomas, Unfortunately the three of us will not be enough for the flash mob we were planning for next month's BP symposium. Sorry man.

hahahahahahhahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

And Thomas, Unfortunately the three of us will not be enough for the flash mob we were planning for next month's BP symposium. Sorry man.

DAMN IT!!!! that SO would have rocked, i may have to go solo, wouldnt be the first time
,,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

I hope I can continue doing it? As my collection grows I have to make decisions on what to continue and what to get out of. It's an evolving process. I'm also running out of space, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Hi John, I addressed this subject below in the bonding and grouping thread, have a look. Thanks

"Everyone should be thankful for those who are attempting to push the colubrid market forward as it relates to new and different morphs. All other differences aside, guys like Jeremy, Rainer, Kerby, Zenny and SO many others, are a benefit to our collective interests in our beloved hobby. Whether your a purist, an idealist, a fulltime breeder/capitalist, or a recreational hobbyist, we ALL have a valid place here and should work together to promote eachother's success...AND equally, if not more so, our animals we all love and tirelessly care for.

Our success is not measured by how much money we make. It is measured on an individual basis, person to person dependant on his/her goals and personal acheivements no matter what that may be. Above all though, we must always put our animal's health and well being before any aspirations of personal gain. Here's to FR. Cheers. *CLINk*"

Micah I agree with a lot of what you said, but there's something your leaving out! Respect for not only others in our hobby, but mostly for the public which is our customers. Ever since I have been into reptiles it seems that this hobby draws in some of the most distastefull charecters that I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with! I am not just speaking of people recently but going waaaay back. It seems that some who are great with reptiles really suck with people! I recently had a customer tell me that he had almost lost faith in buying over the internet because he had been ripped off, so much. It's sad that people have to be dishonest, and misleading. There is a sign at a local Tire shop that I buy all my tires, that goes like this...

There is only one Boss here who can fire everyone, and close our doors forever, and that is THE Customer!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

You're absolutely right Jorge. It wasn't my intention to leave out the ever important customer. I suppose I may have taken it for granted that most business minded professionals and "hobbyists" alike, at least attempt, to take care of their customers; insuring their customers are well taken care of, and more than satisfied. Sadly, I know first hand this is not always the case. I've been burned once before...and I mean, STRAIGHT UP BURNED. I left msgs and emails for the guy, within 15 minutes of receiving an animal, and the dude slipped, dodged and evaded every one of my attempts to reach him after the sale. My only consolation was knowing people like that are short-timers and won't last long in business. The customer IS ultimately the boss.

Thanks for the input.

Good points too!

It's been my experience too that it's not too hard to imagine that some of the vendors you see at shows could be hawking stolen car parts if it werent for selling snakes they know nothing about that day.

It's a treat to talk to a real breeder that's not into it just for the money, cares about his animals, has pics of breeders and is fussy about what he does breed.
I feel bad for those types to have to endure the onslaught of disrespectful potential customers that pass by their table muttering about cheaper animals elsewhere. Or the others that just want a disposable pet for their whining 10 year old in tow just to placate them. I'm not sure I've ever felt good about shows that cater to the masses rather than the places I've been where it's the serious hobbyists who are in attendance.
I think we do not do the hobby any good being an outlet for more disposable pets like:
The horned toads of years gone by.
Anoles.
Baby turtles etc..

At least folks that purposely run over snakes and turtles in the road get it over with quick.

And let's not forget all the countless "disposable" Iguana babies that are sold to people on a compulsive whim that go on to die a slow agonizing death from neglect and not given their basic needs to thrive such as UV light to properly synthesize vitamin D-3 to prevent things like "rubber jaw" bone disease. Their important diet is also something that is often overlooked too by these buyers and not discussed in any depth by many vendors and shops in order to make a quick sale...

I was very glad to see an Article by Tom Crutchfield in an issue of "Reptiles Magazine" where he addressed this VERY adamantly.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I finally got to see the episode of Swamp Wars with Crutchfield, and Gerard.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

LOL!!,.....that was some funny stuff, huh?..

Gerard got Amir's hypo boa back at least..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

That was cool to watch! It still seems like there' a lot to the Crutchfield story not being told?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Yes, a WHOLE lot!..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Bob we are on the same page!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Please, why would you think herps are any different then the general population. What goes on here is not different then any other hobby or business. Its human nature.

To expect everyone to be like YOU, is where you go wrong. Not a single person on earth is like you. And thats the good part.

So please, stop expecting what is unrealistic.

Please consider, you no different then those, You come here and defend your methods and ridicule others that are "different" then you. Even if they are here FIRST, hahahahahahahahahaha

Why I "discuss" with you is, you seem to use the excuse of protecting others. I wonder from what. A better way of keeping, a different way of keeping, WHAT? Are you protecting others against learning more then you? Please, just think about it.

Again, there are bad individuals in every walk of life. are you shocked?

For sure there are both in many hobbies.

But I am aware of more break-ins, bad deals, rip-offs,out right back stabbing and hurtfulness ( like destroying trusted sites) in this hobby than many others from the accounts of trustworthy friends and acquaintances. I have been fortunate myself because I tend to be on my guard and have been around a lot of proffessional liars and people you don't turn your back on for various reasons for many years. There are many people out here that mistake niceness and kindness for weakness and an opportunity. I have also had the blessing of meeting some top tier folks that are just awesome and I don't take it for granted.

We all have different experiences. It will not fly to tell an old couple that has been mugged in the hospital " Are you shocked someone would hurt you for your vacation money?, get over it. It happens anywhere." true, it can, but mostly it happens in places predators are hunting normally and comfortable with their surroundings.
There are wonderful vendors and proffesionals at shows and there are folks there that could easily be hawking stolen car parts just as well and it's not that hard to notice and I'm not talking because of the tattoos and peircings, there are scary looking people that are the salt of the earth.

There are many people out here that mistake niceness and kindness for weakness and an opportunity

Whoa, you said it. You just said a mouthful. And boy does that happen to me a lot.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Good thoughts Jorge!!!

When you said this though:

" It seems that some who are great with reptiles really suck with people! "

Usually, the leaders I know in this hobby are great with reptiles AND people. That is why they are the leaders. The two go hand in hand. If they don't, then you see why some have the reputations they have.

Now, please add the 3 % fee for DISCERN's comment, even though the TOS states not too! HAHA!!! ( inside joke )

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Genesis 1:1

There are some very good people in this hobby also, there just seems to be an abundance of turd heads!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

There is an abundance of those that you speak of. That is very sad, and extremely frustrating. This forum has become a haven of those, alongside very decent people as well.

The thing is, you just can't let the bad outweigh the good. Don't let the unfortunate and selfish actions of others ruin anything for you in this life. Jorge, you yourself have so much of a better reputation in this hobby than the worst who post here. Let that be your shining light in the dark times of internet foolishness.

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Genesis 1:1

hell is other people...

>>hell is other people...
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Billy I don't let anyone ruin my goals. I was refering to Micah's comment about helping the hobby as a whole! I tend to take on opposition head on, that's always been my problem. I don't back down, when I feel I am standing on truth.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

But remember, when you speak the truth, in regards to animal care and care for other humans, it is never a problem.
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Genesis 1:1

so much for being UNITED nice try though,,,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

LOL! Yeah well...worth a shot. I don't know what I was thinking. Guess I'll get off work in a feW, go home, and watch some snakes pip.

I'd probably have a better chance brokering a peace deal between Israel and Iran.

Nm

I know....I know. All I can say is I tried. I don't think everyone's ready for a flash mob yet. I should've planned an mma tourny instead. That would have got every body together I'm sure.

Nm

Very well said!
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www.sunshineserpents.com

Awesome