Reptile & Amphibian Forums

just looking for some feedback from those of you with a few or more different herps. We have Beardies, snakes, tegus, skinks, frills, leos, torts, assorted K-9s and arachnids . Out policy is to wash between species but not neccesarily all the time. (for example when watering animals it's open the door, pour the water close the door, repeat 50 times)

My question is how easily are germs and parasites passed from animal to animal to human? If you pick up a beardie with coccidia then touch another beardie can that transmit the parasite? how about if a beardie jumps on your arm and then your arm brushes against a wall that another animal licks?

Does anyone have expierience in this area? Interested in any info regarding but not limited to - Coccidia, Giardi, Hooks, Pinworms... and the dreaded Yellow fungus!
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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

Our procedure with new aquistions is extreme caution. We've never had an outbreak of disease or parasites, so I can't answer about that.. but I can offer what we do with new arrivals that we don't know what they have and if they have anything.

We try and keep new dragons in a separate room at all times. Whenever we have any contact with new dragons that have not been quarantined and vet checked we always deal with them last. As in we clean/feed our "regular stock first" then move onto the quarantine stock.

We use separate crix and beens for the new stock just in case.. especially if you have leftover crix that need to be removed before the lights go out. We throw back those crix in that dragons "feed bin" so that way their is no way infected crix and infect other crix/dragons that might be exposed to our other dragons. Whenever we handle new dragons after they are put back in their cage the first thing we do is wash our hands before touching anything in our regular reptile room.

I am extremely paranoid about diseases and things entering into our collection. I would be interested to hear other peoples reply to this ? from those who have had illness and parasite break out in their collection. That info could be very valuaable.

Great question bennett.

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

brandon ur just like me...

well ur collection is a lot larger than mine... but I am afreak when it comes stuff like that....

I pretty much go thru the same thing u do... only I do it between two beardies...

just in case one ever catches anything (I dont see how but u never know) I would not want the other to catch it...

That's a real good practice to have though.. doesn't really matter if it's only two dragons.. that will help ensure that your two dragons always do well and are kept safe. Will also help keep you on that tract if you ever add to your collection as it grows.

Good job louie. Keep up the good work!

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

we wash between animals, very careful not to do any feeding at the same time too, always do the birds, then the reptiles washing and disinfecting the sink in between.. on a side note.. i found out today that all the water i drink at the barn.. well it tested high for salmonella and other icky stuff.. just great. havnt gotten sick yet.. maybe years and years of drinking water out of hoses at the barn has made me immune! wishful thinking
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reiko
photos

lol... thats not good... about the water I mean. Good idea about washing hands and everything.. you really can never be too careful I don't think.

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

I try to keep an open mind on this stuff and there's been a thought brewing.

There have been studies that show when a human is never subjected to certain kinds of bacteria, parasites, etc. they are more likely to become sick when subjected to the smallest amounts of these contaminents because their immune system is so weak.

Is it possible to deplete an animal's need for an immune system for so long that when it does come into contact with even the smallest amounts of bacteria it immediately becomes sick? Also, could there be breeding of these animals with the depleted immune systems that is actually bad for the beardies in the long run?

I keep my stuff clean because that's what the experienced people suggest and I'm fine with that. I'm just throwing this out there to see if anybody has any thoughts.
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Rob

I'm not mad at you, open minds/views are always welcome here As long as posts are not meant in a harmful/aggressive way, I think different views are always good to disucss a topic - that is how we all learn.

You def have a very interesting point and under different circumstances I would agree with you completlely. Such as using anitbiotics or "cleansing" food/meds that wipes out their internal parasites and "bacteria" that occur naturally. I def agree with you on that and will never use that on our stock.

However, for certain diseases/illness, no I don't think keeping them away from disease/parasites is harful to them in the long run I think it's common sense. I don't equate it to the human flu where your immune system never gets exposed to it therefore you become weaker around it. the flu doesn't normally kill humans and or cause their body to become infested internally with organisms at high levels that should not be there.

Hookworms, pinworms, roundworms, and so on are all diseases/illness that can and will kill your dragon - especially at high levels. I do not agree with "preventive cleansing" with the products out there - I think you are probably dead on with that point. But when a dragon is raised under normal circumstances and their enclosure is kept as clean as possible I don't think that causes them "undo harm." Have to remember, as hard as we try, they will always be exposed to something in their crix, air, worms, greens, even the air and us humans. It's not like we have them living in a bubble.

Yellow fungus disease that is now creeping up here and there is becoming a perfect example of this "debate." I won't go into the details here, Cheri is the expert on that, but the point is spreading that disease by contact is never good and is deadly. Tiny babies through adults can get that and it's got nothing to do with a strong or depleted immune system. To my knowledge it's a skin disease that spreads through contact and/or rubbing together. There is no way to "prepare" a dragon to fight that off.. it just happens when contact is made. That is why I am very paranoid about touching dragons from "unchecked" stock.

Many times the dragons can get weaker immune systems because they are fighting off these parasites which leaves them open to respiratory infections, coccidia level increases bc they are stressed out, malnutrition, dehydration, and a host of other problems. Coccidia is always present and at low levels is not too bad, but when stressed or exposed to new outbreaks, can reach dangerous levels that will send dragons down hill big time.

As far as breeding dragons, it's a known fact that breeding any dragons stresses out the female and opens her up to problems. That's why it's important to have them at certain levels before they are bred. I don't think dragons that are kept in sanitary conditions are "producing" weaker dragons that are more open to contracting diseases and such.

I believe the opposite is true. I believe by having strong healthy adults kept and raised in the best possible environement produces strong babies with strong immune systems that as they grow are able to fight off problems and/or disease as they grow. That is if you start with proprer breeding stock - some of the "breeder dragons" i see out there I just cringe when I see them. Very sad.

Your point is very interesting, and if anyone can prove that I am wrong, that would be a very interesting topic to discuss. Again, I think you are right about preventive biotics cleansing out their systems - there is always a certain level of coccidia/parasites/bacteria that is present in dragons - but when exposed to an outbreak it overloads that balance and takes over the safe level which the healthy dragon had maintained - that is why I think strong healthy dragons are more important then smaller/weaker dragons.

I will contine to keep all of my dragons out there under sanitary conditions and away from any illness/disease that I can. That is how we raise, breed, and sell our stock. But hey, if anyone reading this wants to buy a dragon from a breeder that has their dragons exposed to illness/disease, just let me know I know a ton out there lol.

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

Thanks for your input, Brandon. What you say makes sense especially with your point about equating the problems with humans. I can see where it would be very dumb to expose people to something like malaria just because eventually the human MIGHT build up somewhat of an immunity to it before becoming too weak and dieing. In that light it's just silly to even consider it.

Thank you also for your comments on aggressive posting. I understand where you're coming from and appreciate the communication.
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Rob

Hi Rob, you are very welcome. It was a good question and something everyone should read and think about. I really do agree with you about over medicating and preventive "cleans" in large quantities.. I think that will deplete their system quite a bit.

But like I said before with the regular maintenance and stuff I think it's still very important. Great point about the milaria (i have no idea how to spell that.) Could even break it down into everyday pets such as cats and dirty litter boxes.. it's just not a good thing.

Yea, I said what I said about the aggressive posting not because of your post, just saying we have had a few really bad disucssions branch off from certain topics here in the past couple of months and it just gets annoying and wastes everyones time.

Please feel free to keep posting questions and your opinions, they will be valued here and it's good for everyone to learn. Just nobody likes it when things get out of control lol.

Thanks,
brandon
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Dragons by Nature