Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,
I just wanted to get a feeling of the "flavour" of this forum. By this I mean are the majority of people for or against collecting herps fom the wild for captivity. I m not trying to spark a debate but was just wondering for my own interest. I don't agree with it myself for various reasons, what do you people think about it? Thanks for reading.

RJ

A good question and an interesting place to pose it...

Like any issue, my response depends on the situation. I occasionally will keep a snake or two that I capture to enjoy and observe it at home before returning it to it's place of capture. I get a lot of satisfaction out of this and I'm comfortable with the imposition I place on the animal and the habitat it came from.

Some people however, collect and sell wild animals in mass quantities for financial gain and this I do not agree with. Wild reptiles, like any other animals, are not an inexhaustible resource. Any experienced herper can tell you of spots that used to have a lot of activity but have dwindled in recent years. Whether through habitat destruction or collecting, the ecosystems reptiles depend on and exist in are changing.

I teach fifth grade and as part of our Science curriculum, we have learned about the Food Web and the co-dependence of all flora and fauna in any given habitat. Any one of my ten-year-old students can tell you that there is a natural order to things and removing vast quantities of reptiles from the wild without respecting the fragile balance of their habitat is negligent and wrong.

John Michels

I tend to agree with the previous post, I currently have a few exotic species of snake that I call my pets. These were captive born and purchased by me. As far as the native species that I find in the wild, mostly they are not brought home. On the few occasions that I find a specimen that is just magnificent, I may bring it home for a period only to return it to it's place of capture.

The only exception may be if I am interested in breeding the species. I feel that is a valid reason to keep a herp for a longer period and ensure that it's excellent genes are not wasted as road kill. Even after a successful breed or two, it should still be released, along with some of the hatchlings back into the environment from whence it came, IMHO.

Anyone who goes out and just catches anything they can get their hands on to sell are really not looking at the big picture. They ought to get themselves a book or two and learn about the balance structure that is an ecosystem and how fragile it is and how crucial it is to preserve!

I hate to sound like a broken record but I agree with yani45 and afrodiziak (did I get that spelling right?).

Commercial collecting is something I no longer approve of (though years ago it didn't bother me)but someone keeping a few things that he or she found themselves I have no problem with as long as they are WELL KEPT. For me, there is no greater thrill than finding a particular species that I really like out in the field. Any such herp that I have collected(kept) though has either been set up in a breeding program by me, or given to someone who is working with that species.

However, giving out specific localities or collecting techniques is something I have wondered about. There is always the probability that someone could/would misuse that information.

Please tell us why.. you are against it and your reasonings, than maybe more of us would be willing get involved in a very serious subject.. This subject often leads to serious fighting.

Fundad

Thanks for your reply those who answered. The reason I asked was to see if this forum was to my liking, if everyone here collects herps for pets then I'm afraid I have nothing to contribute, if this group has a conservation-minded theme then I would definately contribute. As I said in my original post "I don't want to start a debate or anything" so the serious fighting you refer to shouldn't be encountered on this thread right? I gladly explain why I'm against coollecting to many people, but I don't shove my beliefs down their throat. My opinion is just my opinion, everyoone is entitled to one so I see no reason for "fighting".

You still haven't shared the reasons why you are against collecting herps. You are missing possible friendships. I think you will find most forum goers as VERY conservastion minded people that have 5 to 20 herps in their personal collections.
I am not so sure why you think somethat collects a couple COMMON herps is not conservaision minded.... Thats not an accurate or fair assasment... If you think non one should be allowed to have a couple herps than I am sure you wont find many friends here. I see 400 snakes a year in the wild. And I have 7 snakes.... Am I not conservasion minded????? All but 2 of them came from places that "have been bulldozed" or will be within 2 or 3 years.

Am I or am I not.... Conservasion minded. IN your opinion...??

Fundad

My principal objection to removing herps from the field is that it deprives them of their freedom. While I doubt that herps yearn to live wild and free in the same way large mammals and birds do, I really don't know what goes on in the mind of a herp. Trading in the open sky for a cage lid with a light on it...well, I'd hate it. They seem to adapt, most of them, and I sure keep herps myself, so I refuse to finger-wag anyone else's choice. Besides, although I try to keep only CB herps, the founder stock has to come from somewhere, so at some point, herps have to be taken if there is to be captive breeding. With snakes, I suspect they are less mournful of their new situation than lizards might be, since snakes prefer hiding for the most part, and confinement with a full belly might not weigh as heavily on them. When I take lizards to keep, I make every effort to take juvies that have not yet established home ranges, and perhaps are less in love with their feedom than adults with ranges and mates.

The strongest human tendency is the wilingness to kid outrselves and accept something we made up in our own heads as some kind of truth, so I'm no closer to reality here than the commercial collector, but it's a choice. It's just my comfort level.

Have a wonderful day....

Fundad

For captive breeding, I think it's fine. Collecting just to sell, no. In areas where development is impending, as many animals as possible need to be taken out. My .002 cents

I've always held that if you're going to take an animal out of the wild, take only male babies. The vast majority of babies are food for birds, other snakes, lizards, frogs, etc., anyway, so their absense is therefore less likely to impact population stability over the long term.
If you take a female, especially an adult, you are not only removing her from "direct" production, but you're taking all the eggs she'll ever lay in the future as well.
(But consider this also: look at the posts and count the number of DOR reported. The number of roadkills is staggering, and I wonder how it compares to the number of animals taken by hand. Any input from someone who knows the answer?...)

JD

Snakes are a prey animal, not a top predator... The populations in most cases are overflowing.. Snakes are food item for...

coyotes
foxes
hawks
owls
racoons
skunks (serious snake hunters)
crows
ravens
jays
house and wild house cats
other snakes

If a female has 6 eggs a year for 2 years,,, before she is plowed over by a semi.. She has added 12 new snakes minus her..
The number is 11, what happens if all 11 make it to adulthood and breed..?? Can you we say overpopulated.....?? Only one in 12 needs to survive to replace her...........

So many think snake populations are always fragile,,, they are not. More snakes are killed by drought than all other factors combined.......

A coyote will take 5 snakes or more a night in many areas....
check major hwys that run through Good habitat and have been there for 20 yrs,, you will still see snakes...

Lizards are even much more so a prey animal....

All of this is in MY Opinion in 25 yrs of herping....

There are some exceptions to this and I am NOT condoning unlimited take or saying some snakes shouldn't be protected..

Fundad

Well that depends. Certain areas and certain species are best left undisturbed. If you can obtain captive animals then this is certainly the best way to go. If everyone took everything they found well it wouldnt be fun to go out herping. On the other hand taking a big yellow rat off the road might just save his or her life. Be smart.......