Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This guy popped out of a pairing of "Normal" Brooks! I also got a hypo in that clutch.

-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

That is a anery. And a nice one at that.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

I guess they are het for ghost.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

>>I guess they are het for ghost.

Possible Het for Hypo (ghost)......
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Oh yea, true. I was refering to the parents. I was not expecting anything but normals? Even if I somehow put the female with my ghost, which I don't remember doing. It would still mean the female is het for ghost. I guess it's a nice surprise, I just wasn't expecting it.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

I would say that that is an anery and a pb from the 007 line if I had to take a guess. Very few people have mixed anery and hypo.

Either way, sweet lookin stuff, congrats!
-----
Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

Who did you pick up the pair from?
-----
Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

The 007 line is anery x lav x Peanut Butter. The 123 line is axanthic x hypo and PB (or jelly or T neg).

If Jorge got anery and hypo it most likely did not come from the 007 line.

But that is called anery ghost. Not just ghost. As most ghosts refer to the axanthic and hypo line of DH parents.

So Jorge could have produced a anery ghost. Which there are not many of yet. And they are smoking good looking.

I would bet that there could be something else in the mix. Would't surprise me if the next clucth has some else.

Jorge are you double or triple clucthing?
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

Wait Rainer, you mixed it up. He got anery and Pb so it is 007. That is not a hypo. Thats anery and pb so that means they are both poss het lav.
-----
Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

Wait Rainer, you mixed it up. He got anery and Pb so it is 007. That is not a hypo. Thats anery and pb so that means they are both poss het lav

Ahhh I see. You are correct.They are from the 007 line then.

I read Jorges post and he said "hypo" not PB. I never wear my reading glasses when on the computer. And that also explains explains my typos.

Jorge came out better than he thought. Could be het for lav then to.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

It's all good, I know you know, just didn't see my PB post. Check out the one below mbrawley's post. All of the pbs from the 007 line come out looking hypo but the hypos from the 123 line and "Anery ghost" line come out WAY different from this one Jorge posted. That is an insanely nice anery though, love it!
-----
Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

Now that's really got me scratching my head! I am double clutching them and she does have eggs. Can't wait to see?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

I have a quetion...couldn't the anery and hypo each be het for the other, AND then also, both het for lav? Resulting in Lav Phantoms when bred back together?

Anery and PB make phantoms. Lavender phantoms are the triple visuals (PB Snows). That is not a hypo Jorge posted, it is a PB
-----
Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

Gosh dang it......I KNOW. hahaha! I said hypo - I was thinking PB. Unlike Rainer, I can't blame it on being blind...just unsynchronized mind and motor skills. hahahaha!!!

Anyway, so then they could produce a Lav Phantom/PB Snow?

Lol I know you know man, and yup PB Snows if he is lucky!

*Bad pic sorry!*

-----
Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

Anyway, so then they could produce a Lav Phantom/PB Snow?

..and Peabino (lav x PB)

Peabino 2010 hatch:

-----
www.Bluerosy.com

i bred the other female I got from Mike to Zenny's double het Lavender, HyperX Sulfur. That clutch of 5 were all females! But none looked lavender, just some very red normal types.

-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

i bred the other female I got from Mike to Zenny's double het Lavender, HyperX Sulfur

Mike? Who is mike? I ask because most of these snakes came from me at one time or another and i would be better able to trace it back who got what from who. That way i can tell you what the pos het traits are.

For instance most all the sulfur lavs i produced had anery in them. But people didn;'t know. So for example if i soild a sulfur lav to Mr. Jones 10 years ago and he bred it to a axanthic and then the babies were sold and somewhere down the line something pops out (besides axanthic and lav) and anery, aneryx ax or pearl snow or anery snow etc. , I could explain it. Or i can tell you ahead of time what the possibilties are.

BTW those normal females you produced with the red. Shockingly NICE babies!
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

Russo! I got a killer deal for a trio of adults, I think they are 2005's?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

So does the male look older than the female to you. or do they look the sname age?

Look at the head and stuff. You know what i mean.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

But that could just be a result of the females laying eggs and having to recoup?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

But that could just be a result of the females laying eggs and having to recoup?

Yes I know it larger and it could be because males get bigger.

try this. Do you have a male PB, T neg or jelly that you could put with that female?

if so, a lot of my PBs' jellies and stuff have the 007 9snow trait in them. I doubt you got a straight PB from me. So if you have a PB it is probably from the 123 line.

if anything, worst case scenario, you would get PB's , t negs or jellies. Which all go for for money than a anery or lav.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

I got a pira of possible hets from 123 line. The male didn't seem interested this year, so I put my ghost in with her and he raped her, lol. I have since put her back with the 123 pos het male, and I think she will double clutch. I'll have to wait till next year, I may put my male Jelly which should be plenty big enough next year.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Post a pic of your male jelly. Maybe I sent you one that was also pos het.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

You told me at the time that it was definately het for Anery or Lavender, and possible for the other. I don't have any recent pics of him.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

You told me at the time that it was definately het for Anery or Lavender, and possible for the other. I don't have any recent pics of him.

Well then, next time breed him to the normal female. You could get a Jelly mixed with one or both (anery and lav) traits .
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

Do you still think the hypo looking one is PB? I tend to agree with Zenny that it looks more like a good looking hypo?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Well I put my glasses on so i can see.lol! But it is still hard to tell (for me) on the pic. Basically the PB's are more lavender where it is black on hypos. You have to look close at the black (or purpleish lavender)on the head. Or take a close up pic...I reccomend outdoor pic under overcast skies.

If you can't tell or aren't sure now. You will be able to tell when the snake gets into feeding fuzzies. Those PB's changed quite a bit with different phenotypes and also successive breedings. Colors change from the orig PB look (just as the hypos changed colors and patterns from the originals). But as adults they seem to look alike. So you will be able to tell later.

-----
www.Bluerosy.com

Man that's a gorgeous pheno! And your photoshopping is awesome too, with the b&w background...you really oughta frame that one dude!

Yeah i really like that pciture to. But i think that snake with the pattrnless red sides would look good anywhere. In the sun, wind, rain lol
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

I really like that effect too!
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

You think that hypo is actually PB?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Yes sir!
-----
Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

Man I had a long response for Jeremy and my computer froze! I was gonna say I thought the 123 line was Axanthic! I posted the parents a while back and Zenny said the female lookes possible Peanut Butter het? I shrugged it off, but now I don't know what to expect.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

123 is PB Hypo Axanthic. 007 is PB Anery Lav. You have a pb and an anery there. that would tell me that those are 007s. Post the normals. 123 normals and 007 normals look lightyears apart too. Congrats on the clutch and I have my fingers crossed for a phantom in the next clutch!!!!!

-----
Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

Here are the parents.

-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Crazy cause those parents don't scream 007 to me lol! But I have to say that I have never grown up a pair of poss het normals from the project so I would not know how the phenotypes of the normals are affected in the second generation. Great animals and post some hatchling normals! And good luck on the second clutch man!
-----
Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

I'll try to post pics of the 4 babies. One died right after it hatched, don't know what happened there?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

what is weird is the male in the picture looks like it came from the 007 line and the female looks like it came from the 123 line.

I sold quite a few pos hets from the original breedings. is that what you have there Jorge. That would explain a lot.

or better yet. If you paid over $200 each they are def hets. if $50 each they are pos hets.

What you need now is a visual or double recessive that includes the PB trait (The PB trait is key to making the high end morphs0 or the T negative amel or the Jlly triat-BUT combined from the 007 line..

anything that is def het from the 007 line (jelly 007, T neg 007, PB 007.

To make it simple for people to undersnat the mixing of traits i explain it like this...

Consider the Peanut Butter. T negative and Jelly to be one and the same trait.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

Yeah the male does look different. What's got me scratching my head is I thought Mike bred them before he sold them to me, and He said they were normal. He even gave me a baby female as a gift. I am definately happy, I just want to figure out what I have.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Yeah the male does look different. What's got me scratching my head is I thought Mike bred them before he sold them to me, and He said they were normal. He even gave me a baby female as a gift. I am definately happy, I just want to figure out what I have

Again i don't know who mike is.Mike who..what is his last name.

Can you tell me this...... Is the male older looking than the female? Then maybe i can explain it.

and who is Mike? Cause maybe i can remember what he got from me.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

Ya, what jeremy said.

When i bred the first PB to make triples I bred a PB to a Ghost 9ghost is always reffered to as a HYPO X AXANTHI) and SNOW 9Anery lav).

Since the "ghosys" from the anery trait is new, we refer to them as anery ghosts. Just to make sure to keep them apart.

But when i did the orig breedings t, there was no anery ghosts .

Anyway

007 = Ghost (axanthic x hypo)
123 =snow (Anery x lavender)(the lv I used was also a SULFUR) so it is easy to tell the het parents from the 23 line which has a more classic brooksi appearance.

Today. Now, we refer to the 123 line with PB , Jelly and T neg

and the 007 as snows with either PB , Jelly or T neg.

Since the PB , Jelly and T neg are all allelic and share a single locus. They can all be mixed and matched as long as it is 123 to 123 and 007 to 007.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

123 is pb axan hypo
007 is anery pb lav

He mixed them up again somewhere in the post
-----
Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

Now I'm dizzy! But I see these are no normal parents.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Hey Jorge, I had the same confusion in the beginning too, and it took me a minute to sort it out in my head. As jeremy said: 007 - pb/anery/lav...just sound it out. 007...double "O" - rhymes with SN"O"W....

LOL! Retarded I know, but it worked for me.

I'll never forget it now, lol. Thanks I do things like that cause my memory is getting bad! I was even thinking I may have bred that female to something else? But then she would have had to be het regardless. So my records are correct.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

>>I guess they are het for ghost.

very nice looking snake there. my question is, on my monitor he looks black and yellow, like a very nice normal. what are his colors?
when i produced ghosts, etc from double hets i used to get some very cool looking normals out of the clutches.

if you go to the photo section and look through brandon osborne's pictures he has a picture of a dh ghost female on a blue background that is one of the biggest and best looking "normal" phenotype i have seen. anyhow, she started out looking like your snake in the picture.

anyhow i'd be interested in seeing how this snake turns out.

daveb
-----
odelay odelay odelay hee hoooo...
heeeeya huhhhh!
~Back in the saddle (Aerosmith)

to be honest. My moniter does give it a yellowish hue also. But I don't really see it on the animal. I guiess it will be interesting to see what it turns out looking like as it grows.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

dave,
What Jorge is referring to is an Anery ghost. Not an axanthic ghost.

The anery ghost is something newer. While the Ghost that we all know is axanthic x hypo. Since then there have been a few anery ghosts (anery x hypo).
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

>>dave,
>>What Jorge is referring to is an Anery ghost. Not an axanthic ghost.
>>
>>The anery ghost is something newer. While the Ghost that we all know is axanthic x hypo. Since then there have been a few anery ghosts (anery x hypo).

hi rainer,

i think i have seen some pics of the anery ghost. its still a double homozygous recessive trait like the axanthic ghost i assume ?

i apologize for my "arrested development" lol lol having no recent experience but a long memory. the pic really grabbed my memory bank as i have hatched out so many that looked similar.

so- has it been decided whether the 1st pic is anery or normal and the 2nd pic hypo or peanut butter?

daveb
-----
odelay odelay odelay hee hoooo...
heeeeya huhhhh!
~Back in the saddle (Aerosmith)

Awesome!

Looks anery to me...and a very nice looking one at that.

Thanks Micah. I wasn't sure because I didn't think the parents were het for anything, and I know some Floridas don't really display much color anyway. This is actually my first Anery!
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Well be happy for that one man...that's a SCREAMER!!!! And if its sibling is PB, and they both turn out to be def hets for the other, then I can't wait to see you produce some equally nice Phantoms down the road.

(Jeremy, that's your que to post a Phantom pic right now.)

007 PB on top of normal PB

-----
Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

Since we're on the topic...what origin does this pb look like he's from? Or wait, is he a hypo? hahahaha!!!

Thats a 123 line.

Classic high band count. heavily speckled and light color.

The 123 line are all derived from s. Dade county stock

1)I used the orignal PB
2) I sued a hpo I bought back in the mid 90's which was from F1 o F2 unoutcrossed stock
3) The New ngland axanthic...which would not be a NE unless it was never outcrossed into anything because a NE is a line trait..BTW the NE I used to bree to the hypo was also F1 or f2 stock from Fengya.

What happened is I made a ghost. the hypo loong passed away and everybody got off the bandwagon of high yellow south brooksi bandwagon. But I had the hypo and NE axanthi encapsulated into a ghost-WITHOUT KNOWING I PRESERVED THE OLD CANAL STOCK IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM.

Well actually the orig hypo is the main key, because you just can find any hypos that are direct from south dade county stock. The NE line was preserved and the PB's are newer , so their are still orignal UN=OUTCROSSED parent stock around.

anyway, to make a long story shorter. All 3 traits are bonafied S, Dade county Florida. A true brooksi.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

"2) I sued a hpo I bought".

Huh? What the heck you talking about Rainer? You did what?

"2) I sued a hpo I bought".

Huh? What the heck you talking about Rainer? You did what?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOL!
That's for me to know and everyone else to find out. HA HA HA! I speak in code. Yeah right!

...Classic post of mine , eh?

I meant to type " I USED and HYPO I bought"...I bred an original hypo when they first came out from the Loves.... I think it was 1995 ?They were $700. each back then. I riased it up. bred to a NE axanthic and later bred that to the orig stock Peanut butter.

Anyways., those original hypos came from w/c parent stock from s. Florida. Since then the hypos were outcrossed to death into northern stock. I don't think you will find original stock anywhere anymore.

So those 123's -and anything from that line..... Be it pos hets, def hets, visual morphs ect. Are pure bonafide s. Florida brooksi and the NEW Englands came from the Old canal stock (per Fengya).

So what you have is pure locality. And a morph!
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

Very nice Jorge!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love them!!!!
-----
Genesis 1:1

Seems like the parents are not normal, lol.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

I suppose it could be anery, but it also looks like a lot of normals I've produced.
-----
www.brooksi.com

But with the Peanut Butter also in the clutch, I have to lean toward Anery. Too bad both are males.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Try to breed em anyway.

Huh?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Huh?

YEAH , its the new thing now. FR will be writing about gay kingsnakes.

havn't you ever seen Jurassic park?
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

Maybe after a few sheds, maybe the colors will be better suited to be able to tell?

Either way, love the anery AND the parents!
-----
Genesis 1:1

top one is anery and the bottom one looks more like a peanut butter than a hypo to me.
both are very VERY nice, CONGRATS!

,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
-----
Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

A liitle late Tom. This is SO last week. We've all already hammered it out. Catch up with the group Tom.
Thanks though for the input even though everyone else has already moved on.

Hahahhahaha!!!!!

yeah, i posted without reading everyone elses responces. ive got corns, milks, calikings hatchin so im swamped... im always late anyway
oh well, just droppin in my .02cents
,,,,,,,,thomas
-----
Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Hahahaha? I's just hackin on you!

I think thomas caved in to peer pressure..

ketchup thomas..!
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

ketchup thomas..!
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

mustard for me!

yeah yeah yeah... i could really careless
-----
Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

I don't wanna be a "Zenny Downer" but that 1st hatchling looks like a wild type... I see some yellow along his sides. The "anery" mutation does show yellow pigments but that's generally with age. I'd say give it a few feedings/sheds before you conclude what he is.

The 2nd hatchling looks like a hypomelanistic... Head pattern/color/tail stripe all say "hypomelanistic" to me. I'd put more faith is hypo not PB but that's just my opinion.

I remember those adults I believe Tom S. Said the male looked like a PB het and I said the female looked like a PB het... More test breeding should answer your questions. A 2x homoZ PB-anery or Hypo-anery will be easy to spot.

~Z

hey z,

i have to agree with your assessment, first one normal (nice but normal) and second one hypo.

daveb

-----
odelay odelay odelay hee hoooo...
heeeeya huhhhh!
~Back in the saddle (Aerosmith)

I will test the parents next year!
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com