Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Havent found out if its for real or not, but I found the add in the KS classifides. Ill believe it when I see it!

There was a really great lady named Holly who used to post here frequently. Holly had a huge mangrove that might have been approaching 6ft.

Scooter was a darn nice lookin animal to. I cant remember how big he was either. She posted alot of good pics of him.

I have seen plenty of 5 footers with good wieght. But never that heavy.That part is either an exaggeration or a real heavy specimen. I believe the ad also said female now that would be a first, all of the big ones I see are males I have yet to see a female over 4 foot.

If the price wasn't so high I might consider purchasing that animal I could use a nice male for my females that keep dropping egg's. But if he really is that heavy it is probly not in the best of health.

Hi Bengalensis,

This sounds like Varanus juxtindicus, from a single Solomon island in that Archipelago....the males attain lengths over 6 feet long, and females slighly smaller. They are called Hakoi by the natives there. A friend of mine had a breeding pair for years, got a single clutch before both male and female suddenly died after 9 years with him weeks apart from one another! He had a single clutch survive (many clutches) and at ~2 years old, the "babies" are already 4 - 4.5 feet long, and remarkable. What makes V. juxtindicus different is it has a single keel scale down the tail, rather than a double-row keel like all other Varanus have.

Furthermore, there are isolated islands in the Pacific where "Varanus indicus" are reported at 6.5 feet by qualified herpetologists, and the cliche is, on islands nearby, the animals
look totally different in size and color patterns? = Natural selection at its best!

My friend and I are writing an in-depth paper on this species as they do appear now and then here in States....furthermore the native folk-lore, habitat, and data about it is quite extensive, "IF" one knows how to find it, and these sources are not in the typical journals or books, but in theological-based sources, describing this species as laymen would, but very accurately to a zoologist/varanophile (i.e. Eduaord Beccari wrote in trip to Borneo 1880's)!

Cheers,
mbayless

Hi Mark,
I have a picture of this lizard from Reptilefest before him and his owner moved down south. Did you ever get a picture of him at Midwest crawling across the hotel bed for size reference?

hi Rich,

I do have a few pics I took in the schaumburg hotel room when Iggy took them out to show me....I do not have that other photo, and would like to see it - as Igg and I are writing a paper on Gomer, and Family, including felis domesticus events, I would like to include it....how is everything? OK here..the blah blah blah issue is same.

Cheers & Thanks Rich,
mark

>>Havent found out if its for real or not, but I found the add in the KS classifides. Ill believe it when I see it!
-----
DarkWave Exotics

Currently keeping:
1.1 southern scrub pythons
1.0 reticulated python
1.0 albino burmese python
1.1 macklots python
1.1 jungle carpet pythons
1.0 irian jaya carpet python
0.1 blood python
1.1 ball pythons
1.2 colombian redtail boas
1.1 argentine boas
1.0 sonoran boa
0.1 bullsnake
2.2 albino and het albino chinese beauty snakes
1.0 cave beauty
1.2 taiwan beauties
2.1 cornsnakes
0.1 nile monitor
0.0.1 savannah monitor
2.5 leopard geckos

According to her last post on him. I guarrantee no where near 30lbs.

You should think about this, Yes, there are indicus type monitors that can and do reach over 6 feet. There are also populations that do not.

This allows for genetic potential. The possibility to reach a certain size. But with reptiles, the genetic potential is almost always limited by real life conditions, both in nature and in captivity. With reptiles and more specificly monitors, a reallife normal functioning adult, can be 50% of that potential. That is normal in both nature and captivity.

Now please understand this, that applies to all species that I know of. From Ackies, many people have adult ackies under 18 inches, yet I have seen them over three feet. Argus type monitors, commonly breed at three feet, yet there are individuals over 6 feet.

I would think the sizes we see are more to do with captive conditions than actual genetic potential. Also, as the indicus monitors are mostly Indo, they have the potential of coming from many thousands of islands with many thousands of genetic possibilities. Remember Indo consists of over 14000 islands, and all of them are within the varanid belt. That is, none of the islands lie outside of known monitor ranges. Also, monitors are indeed known to occur in even the smallest of islands.

By the way, that large indicus at Reptile Specialist(tucson) looks to me to be slighly under five feet. cheers F

Yes, Don't worry about extremes. The normalcy is whats really important! Like you didn't already know that.

Sorry FR, Didn't mean to question you. After all, If it wasn't for you I wouldn't have the 130 basking spot nor the "Retes stack". Thank you very much!

He is still growing with his huge appetite could reach 5'-6'

My guys have got some catching up to do! Mine are at just over 3'. That blows my mind!

Michelle

Read my post a little more carefully. Yours may be small for their age and genetic potential, or they may not, you have no way of knowing. You have no knowledge of their potential and possibly no experience with successful husbandry.

If you had raised lots of species to be very large individuals and lots of mangroves to become very large individuals, you may have to experience to judge whether they are stunted or not. Do you have this knowledge?

You should also think about what a large individual of a particular species means. In most cases its not a very good idea to have that happen. It limits the individuals that it can live with. Giant individuals require more support then normal adults. Do you have the support to allow normal adults to succeed, muchless have the resources to allow an exceptional individual/s to succeed.

Remember, a giant individual in nature may represent, one in a million, or maybe way more. Why would you use such a lofty individual as a goal? Why not start with trying to reach what normal individuals do. Just think, how many indicus in the world are under 6 feet and 30 pounds. I would think that would be a very very high percentage.

I find that people concentrate of records, age, size, etc, without ever achieveing, the norm. First achieve normal. Good luck F

I think too that people concentrate on the record sized individuals. Especially when you are talking about monitors like Salvators, Salvadorii, Albigs, and Indicus. You know the one's that are supposed to be huge right off the bat. I would have thrown Varius in there too but you are probably the only one that could really relate to that point.

My largest Salvator is somewhere over 5 foot, not quite 6. I have had him for 2 years and he was a hatchling when I got him. I was worried at first because he didn't seem to be getting as large as some of the others people had in certain amounts of time. I feel he is with in normal range especially considering I was / am a newbie and he has had to suffer my learning husbandry.

Later, Gene

It is a rarity to see them this size more so then the norm.. It also depends on the locality you have but even then I am not sure if the study would show they are all such large individuals. I have been keeping mangroves for a few years now and have not once had one get over 5 foot long and no place near 30lbs.. My females seem to be from 3-4 foot in length and stop they also are no place near half of the 30lbs. of this beast.

I havent managed to find out the locality of my mangroves as they differe from most I see around. They produce egg's and are very healthy so that goal is all I would care about. Don't worry about yours becoming the next godzilla if it happens it does if not don't worry.

this was taken in moluccas. photographer told me he estimated it at 6 feet, but theres nothing to scale against it. -john

cybersalvator

this is a 5 footer owned by jim alles. -john

cybersalvator

looks like a nice 5 foot maybe 15lbs. male

You have the tree branch, sticks, knots in the wood, and leaves. Now to bad i didn't know what the size of them leaves are for sure. But I would say that is a 5 footer rather then 6 unless those leaves are alot bigger then I am thinking. I also don't think that one is 30lbs. either but does look in alot better condition then the one below which looks a little on the heavy side to me.

I have seen alot of mangroves come and go down here in FL. and most are 4-5 foot for males with females being 3-4 foot (this is for adults). Of course I have seen babies, and small juvies here as well. From the typical ones coming in to all sorts of patterns and colors. This 6 foot 30 pounder is in Melbroune so maybe I will just go have a look at it myself and wiegh it etc. and get some pictures for everyone in person.

Nice pictures John, I for one will not deny that mangroves can get 6 feet, I have seen that. But really that is not the point.

The first concern is, a six foot female????? that would be of news. Next the fact that their is no real measurement for this animal or the one in nature.

My follow up was not about any of this. I am more concerned with average reproductive size of females, and the average size of the males that fertilize those eggs. Even more important would be the smallest reproductive size for females and males. The reason for that is, our monitors start as babies then grow larger. At what size do they start producing?? That would be usefull information. I think its a logicial guess that full sized adults are capable of breeding.

My concern was also about why people seem to gravitate to the extremes, instead first accomplishing the normal. F

Come on man! Were brought up with the hunger, and its a hard habit to shake. But thats a cultural issue...too complex and philisophical to even attempt...Maybe another time, at another place...

HI FRANK,
as a keeper of larger monitors, ironically, i am thankful mine arent true giants. yes, many salvators can grow to great lengths or weights, but the individuals im caring for are moderate sized. manageable, but still growing.
im trying to accomplish the norm. it took me years to acquire pairs, and the behaviors associated with pairs is new to me. i am not looking to raise up mine to see how big they get, rather enjoy the experience of seeing pairs behave in captivity. goal for me is to let them socialize and react to their environment, instead of reacting to a human. if i get fertile eggs, then thats a bonus for me, and maybe a sign im doing things better. about average size reproductive males or females, i am not able to answer, but sure leaves more to ponder than wondering about record lengths, or giants. -john
cybersalvator

I'd be asking the photographer how familiar he was with monitors.

Whenever I ask someone how big the last lace monitor they saw was, the answer is always six or seven feet (ten feet, in one case). People that have just been up north on holidays always see a 20 foot long saltwater crocodile, as well.

Although lacies can exceed six feet and salties can exceed 20 feet, animals of this size are very rare, certainly not the norm. people. The truth is, when anyone sees a big lizard or crocodile out in the wild it seems huge. A 5 1/2 foot monitor would look 7 feet long to most people (10 feet long to one person!) and a 14 foot crocodile would also appear to be 20 feet.