Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am slowly getting fecals done for all of my leos, one poop at a time, even for the leos appear healthy.

Lisa has flagellates, but she's not showing any symptoms, so I'm guessing they are the harmless kind. How many of you consider those to be normal?

I don't think they're doing her any harm, but I'm still going to give her the medicine my vet prescribed. It's Pyrantel Pamoate. I've been told it's very low risk. I'm guessing it's one of those all-purpose medications, because Caesar's on it for his hookworms. Should I go ahead and shotgun my other two leos (who also appear healthy) with the same medication or do wait to do individuals fecals for each of them?
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chickabowwow

3.2 leopard geckos (Rosie, Locke, Lisa, Caesar, Tommy)
and 3 eggs a' cookin'

Fairly common type of parasite. Probally came from the food source at one time or another. If you are going to have fecals done on them it won't hurt to wait a bit and see. Just in case they are clean no use to medicate if they don't need it. In most cases I belive that alot of leos probally have some kind of parasite of some kind. They just won't show up in the fecal unless they are getting pretty numerous. I believe it is darn near impossible to get totally clean food sources all the time. Crickets especially are prone to be carriers of something sometime.
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Even if your on the right track you will get run over if you just sit there
20 leos,1.1 redtail boas,1.1 rainbow boas,1.1 cornsnakes, 1.0 tokay gecko,1.0 veiled cham, 5 dogs and a cat. Oh, can't forget Tater my parrotlet.

I'm still confused as to why your vet perscribed Strongid T for hookworms and a minor protozoal disturbence.

Unless you are treating Strongyles I don't see why they didn't give you panacur, that being said Panacur also works just fine against both Strongyles and Strongyloides. And I may be wrong, but I don't think Strongid T has any effect on protozoal infections, you should be using Flagyl for that.

I'd be curious to hear why your vet prefers Strongid T over panacur.
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-Ross Payan - www.LeosAnonymous.com

Leos Anonymous

Ball Pythons, Red Striped Leos, W.Hognose and Screaming AFT's

From what it looks like, I should give my vet the benefit of the doubt. Pyrantel Pamoate is commonly prescribed to treat hookworms in cats and dogs, but I finally found a vet site that mentions treatment for reptiles. It's in here: http://www.vetsoftware.com/acvc2002-wilson6.htm

There's a lot of technical stuff, but if you scroll about 2/3 down, it says, "Stongyloides may be seen in snakes or sometimes in lizards and can cause GI ulceration, obstruction, anorexia, and death. Eggs may be seen on fecal float or direct smear. Treat with fenbendazole (Panacur) or pyrantel pamoate." There's also an interesting tidbit about Ivermectin; I remember hearing a couple people on here having problems with that.

Caesar is still consistently pooping bloody stools, but just the mere timing of when it first appeared makes me think that it might be a sign that the medicine is working. If the medication works like it does in dogs, he's gonna poop out everything--blood, worms, and all.

She did add Albon to the medication to combat the coccidia. I think that is what was causing the side effects. Caesar lost his appetite for three days. I was worried about that, because he was very frail to begin with. He can't afford to lose his appetite, which is what would happen if I fed him Albon continously.

I stopped giving him his medication on Sunday, and I'm supposed to start it again in two weeks. If it means anything, he seems to be showing improvement. His appetite finally came back today. He's still resting a lot, but he is much more alert than before I even took him to the vet.
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chickabowwow

3.2 leopard geckos (Rosie, Locke, Lisa, Caesar, Tommy)
and 3 eggs a' cookin'

My Tang had flagellates as well & the vet prescribed Flagyl. I had to use two rounds of it, but now she's eating like a pig & growing for the first time since I've had her. I'd say use what your vet gave you, in the way he/she prescribed. Otherwise, why are you seeking & paying for his/her advice? (No offense)
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0.3.0 leos, Geo, Tang, Ginger
0.1.1 frogs Buffy the Cricket Slayer, Butrose Butrose Froggy
0.0.5 firebelly newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Juice Newton & Olivia Newton John
1.1.0 cats Gus & Mena

I may have forgot to mention, Pyrantel Pamoate and Strongid T are the same thing...

I'm not saying that the Strongid T won't work... I'm simply asking if your vet told you why she prefers the Strongid (Pyrantel Pamoate) over Panacur.

And like I said before, just because they are "a vet" doesn't mean they know what they are doing when it comes to treating reptiles. Trust me on this one... you want a vet with first hand experience, not someone who goes and references a book. (that was a general statement, nothing against the vet in this thread)
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-Ross Payan - www.LeosAnonymous.com

Leos Anonymous

Ball Pythons, Red Striped Leos, W.Hognose and Screaming AFT's

I know that pyrantel pamoate is marketed as Stongid T, but it's also known as Nemex and RFD Liquid Wormer.

From what I can gather by my own research, both Panacur and the Pyrantel Pamoate are only effective against the adult forms of the parasites that reside in the intestinal tract. However, Panacur carries the risk of TSS if your animal is heavily infested, because it starves the worms to death, and your animal has to deal with the toxicity or even blockage from all those dead parasite bodies. Pyrantel Pamoate on the other hand does not kill the worms, but paralyzes them so that they can be expelled from the digestive tract. It's also not easily absorbed into the host's intestines, so it's not toxic for your animal.

I know that my vet is doesn't specialize in reptiles (which is why I will find another vet) but I think she knows what she is doing with spotting and treating intestinal parasites.

My reasons for this:
1. She's already demonstrated her knowledge of the classification and symptoms of the parasites. Who am I to question her expertise?
2. Even her vet techs are very well-trained.
3. I am already seeing improvements with my baby.

So is it a problem that I would rather follow her instructions instead of the recommendations of a person posting on an Internet forum? Your advice on the Albon would probably make my already skinny leo worse.
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chickabowwow

3.2 leopard geckos (Rosie, Locke, Lisa, Caesar, Tommy)
and 3 eggs a' cookin'

Hi there... there is no need to get rude over a simple question. All I asked is if you know why your vet prefers Strongid T over Panacur. Why did I ask this question... because I was curious. Simple question looking for a simple answer, so what is your problem?

What was the title of your ORIGINAL post? "My leo has coccidia and hookworms -- Any tips?" FYI: Coccidia and Flagellates are NOT the same thing.

As for the statement: "Your advice on the Albon would probably make my already skinny leo worse." You originally stated that your gecko had COCCIDIA, not flagellates. Two TOTALLY different parasites, requiring two totally different types of treatments... If your gecko did have coccidia you would need Albon, but since you now say your gecko has flagellates and not coccidia obviously the treatment would be different.

So now I have some more advice for you... If you come on the forums to ask questions, supply the correct information.

Also, if your gecko does NOT have coccidia... you should NOT have been perscribed Albon. Here is what you originally said: "I just checked, and he is on Albon. I'm giving him .1cc a day for three days, and then I'm supposed to repeat the dosage for three days after two weeks." That is a common dosage schedule for Flagyl, NOT albon. And if you were treating for coccidia, that treatment regimine would not be enough.

Another thing... you said your vet mixed Albon and Strongid together in the same bottle. What vet would simply mix two different meds together, especially since Strongid is given WEEKLY and Albon DAILY? "Right now he's on pyrantel pamoate and I think another medicine that was blended into it for the coccidia. Amoll-something or other"

So don't come on the forum, after asking for help and making your vet sound like they have no clue what they are doing, then try and make me sound like an idiot for questioning your vet and giving "wrong advice". And for God's sake, if you want to get accurate advice, then supply the CORRECT information. I am supposed to know that when you said your gecko had coccidia, that it really had flagellates?

If you want to take a look at all the WRONG information you supplied in your original thread follow this link:

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=189551,189551

Notice any changes in your story? Once again, if you want accurate advice, provide the CORRECT information. If you ask for advice on treating basic flagellates, then don't ask for advice on treating coccidia.

I'm sorry to come across rudely in this post, but when you give me wrong information, then make rude comments because you got "bad advice" it's a bit upsetting.

Take care.
Your Original Thread..... Notice Any Changes ?

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-Ross Payan - www.LeosAnonymous.com

Leos Anonymous

Ball Pythons, Red Striped Leos, W.Hognose and Screaming AFT's

I wasn't supplying incorrect information, because I was talking about TWO different leos with TWO different cases. One was diagnosed with coccidia and hookworms, the other was diagnosed with flagellates three days later. I guess I could have emphasized that a bit more in my original posts, but I thought I made it clear that one was male and the other was female. There are other indications in my posts (even my posting history) that I wasn't talking about just one leo, but I won't delve into that.

The only mis-information that I might've supplied in my posts was from incorrect information that was given to me. This was because I didn't bring Lisa in for a full vet visit (like I did for Caesar) and merely dropped off her stool sample. The receptionist told me that they found flagellates in Lisa's stool and had the medication ready for me to pick up. However, one of the vet techs said they found nematodes. I am waiting for my vet to call and clarify what it was they actually found in her stool sample. I know that nematodes, flagellates, and even coccidia are all different things that require different medications, all right?

There's no reason to blow up at me. I really did appreciate your response to my original post about Caesar; however, I don't see why you keep bringing up Panacur versus Pyrantel Pamoate, when the latter has already started working for my leo and both are proven effective medications against hookworms. If you want to know why my vet chose to prescribe Pyrantel Pamoate over Panacur, I'll be more than happy to give you her number and you can ask her directly. However, why she chose this over that is not one of my concerns right now. Panacur is a popular choice for herp vets, but using it to treat reptiles is still going beyond the manufacturer's intention. The same goes for Stongid T. Until you can prove to me that Panacur is better than Pyrantel Pamoate, that is not something I'm going to lose sleep over, because as far as I'm concerned, they both work with the chance that Pyrantel Pamoate is safer.

So wounded egos aside, the core of the issue is that my leos have parasites and I am trying to do the best that I can for them.

Albon doesn't kill the coccidia; it inhibits their reproduction so they are not constantly growing to higher levels. It is his immune system that will slowly get rid of the coccidia. How can I keep up his immune system if he won't eat? I don't want to administer Albon to Caesar on a daily basis like you recommend, because it will destroy his appetite. He is already underweight, and he cannot afford to lose his appetite for a prolonged period.
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chickabowwow

3.2 leopard geckos (Rosie, Locke, Lisa, Caesar, Tommy)
and 3 eggs a' cookin'

This has escalated way too far... Good luck treating your geckos, I hope they get better.

You keep referring to the fact that I'm saying panacur is better than Strongid T, but I havn't. I have never personally used Strongid T, and have only seen it recommended for Stongyles, so I was just asking why your vet likes the Strongid better. The question was not asked to start an arguement, it was for my own knowledge. I don't understand why you keep taking that question as an attack.

And I would just like to add... if one of your geckos has coccidia there is a very good chance they all do. Just because it didn't show up in all the fecals doesn't mean it's not there. But hey... maybe you practice great hygiene and contained it too one animal, if so I applaud you.

Maybe I shouldn't have been bothered by your comments. But when I take the time to post multiple posts in the middle of the night to help someone out it's more than a little bothersome when they make snide remarks.

That's pretty much it from me... like I said, I hope your geckos make a full recovery.

Take care.
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-Ross Payan - www.LeosAnonymous.com

Leos Anonymous

Ball Pythons, Red Striped Leos, W.Hognose and Screaming AFT's