Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We were lucky enough to hatch out a couple het puma clutches this year and one was from breeding one of our het puma males to a spider female. We were extremely pleased to see this little gem in the egg on day 55. The clutch was 4 eggs and we got the perfect clutch with 1 Hp(het puma), 1 spider, 1 normal and one combo Hp-spider. We are going to call this one the cougar to keep in line with the puma name. Enjoy!!

Please don't take this wrong but I have to ask.
I see Spider head and body markings.
A hatchling that appears to be right out of the egg, pre first shed. Not completely colored up at this time.
So what should I see that says Het Puma?
Thanks

Could I see pictures of the clutch? What do you look for in a het puma? How can you tell with the spider, it is very clean. Thanks

Heres a pic of the 2 spiders from the clutch. Yes they are newly hatched babys.

that is pretty neat. the het pumas i have seen tend to look a little fire like; that looks pretty clean to just be a spider. congrats.
howard

Congrats on the Cougar man. I want that sucker so bad LOL
come on Dan, be a pal and send it my way.....

I don't understand how something could be called a het (recessive) when it produces a visual trait. For example, take a het russo and breed it to a normal and you will produce het russos. Breed the het russos together and you get a white diamond/b.e.l. Therefore this is not a recessive gene, it's a co-dom producing a super. Is this situation the case with the pumas as well? Either way, that is an awesome looking snake.

They are visual hets. A pastel is het super pastel. I think the sellers started using het ivory for YB to tell people that they produced something so much different than YB. The #'s are all the same.

So, are the pumas considered to recessive or co-dominant?

They are a complicated super. The same as a BEL from mojo to lesser.

Whatever they are Mike they are super cool!! That is one of my favorite snakes.

As in het Ivoeries, het Superstripes, and het Reds it seems to me that a lot of breeders use "het" to signify that they are indeed trait carriers. As in all co-doms visually pastels for example are het for super pastel but because they are so easily distinguishable visually so they are given names well as their supers. These particular morphs are so suttle its easiest to give them their "het" for what their combo makes.

Thanks man! I have just been curious to ask this for quite sometime. When you speak recessive,or producing hets, I have always been used to albinos, caramel albinos, ghosts, clowns, pieds,etc. I guess I'm still a little confused on how a simple recessive animal can produce a clearly visual het. To me, that's always meant co-dominant (possessing the ability to form a super). Is it not true that an animal, when bred to a normal, produces a visual of itself is considered to be a co-dominat or dominat gened animal. And when a visual morph is bred to a normal, produces all normal appearing offspring is considered to be a simple recessive gened animal. Thanks for answering by the way. This is just something some fellow breeders and myself have had some long discussions about.
Link

Try not to think about it so much as co-dominant and recessive as it is heterozygous and homozygous. An Albino and Super Pastel are homozygous for their particular genes. Breed either one to a normal, all the babies are heterozygous. The difference in the recessives and co-dominant genes is that the co-dominant gene is a visible heterozygous. You can see what it is, but its still heterozygous for that particular gene no matter what you call it or how it looks.
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Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

Thanks Luke. That's a good way to look at it.

I couldnt have said it better myself.

Here is a couple pictures to show how visually differant the HP is. This snake truly is a stunning mutation by itself and Will make some insane combos in the future without a doubt. Just because its called a het puma doesnt mean that its the only thing you can do with them. There is a ton of potential with these and the spider cross was just a test run to see.

YB and "het puma" are both equal in the end result. Same way YB x spectors or het super stripes are to super stripes.

Do either of you have photos of a pastel het puma that you could share?
thanks
howard

Beatiful animals!
Congrats!

So what do you guys think would a Lesser het Puma look like?

I am working in a Dinker Project and i see qiute some similaritis on the het Pumas.

Here is a Pic of two animals from last year (Lesser X Dinker).

The animal on the right is quite a normal Lesser, but the one on the left is glowing in the dark!