Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What's the significance of an all black belly if thee is one? Is it a marker? What if the animal is het?

Thanks!

Kenny
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4.9 BCI (Developing Project)
1.1 Eastern Indigo (Takata/Bruce)
2.3 Western Hognose (Albino/Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (High Yellow/Sorong)
1.1 Kimberly Monitor
1.0 Ctenosaura Conspicuosa (Sexy Tame!)
1.1 Sahara Uromastic (Deer Fern Red Phase)
2.2 Crested Gecko
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python (Trophy)
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle (Pet)
1.0 Pitbull (Exceptional)
1.2 Kids (Hybrids)
0.1 Ball and Chain (Used)

What's the significance of an all black belly if thee is one? Is it a marker? What if the animal is het?

There is currently no known significance to an all black belly other than maybe a type of locality specific gene issue. It is not currently known to be a marker of any sort unless when dealing with the details of the Anaconda trait but there's other markers one has to consider for Anacondas as well besides an all black belly. I have several hognose that exhibit an all black belly and they are, to my knowledge, not carrying any special genes other than the ones for their black bellies. I'm currently in the process of breeding an F1 pair of black bellies together to try and determine the hereditary nature of black belly genes.
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

i would be really interested in hearing about your findings on this subject. i have an adult female that has a tendency to produce black bellies. i also have an unrelated female(2010) with an all black belly, maybe a fleck or two of yellow. hoping to produce some great looking black bellies some day if it works out.

It is just a naturally occurring variation in my opinion. I have found both westerns and mexicans that have solid and classic bellies. Some of which were within feet of eachother. I also produce clutches of mixed animals every year. There are usually clutchmates that are polar opposites. Some are solid black, while others are very checkered.

I agree with Troy. Unless the solid belly is tied to other traits like seen with the conda or blonde kennerlyi, it isn't going to be a marker for anything other than what it is... A black belly.

Jon
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Ultimate Hognose

i would be really interested in hearing about your findings on this subject.

My findings so far are extremely limited as the data is only from a small F1 clutch. Th mother has a typical checkered belly while the father had a 99.9% black belly (I say "had" because he died last year). Both snakes are from unknown origins although the female was claimed to be a poss. double het Evans Albino (Hypo) x Pink Pastel (she's since been proven not to be het PPA). They produced a clutch of 12 eggs, 5 fertile. Out of those 5, 4 hatched giving me 2 males and 2 females. Both males have solid black bellies as does one of the females. The other female has a typical checkered belly. So 3 out of 4 have black bellies but it's far too small of a clutch to make any real solid hypotheses in my opinion.

I recently paired one of the males to the black bellied female and they hooked up almost immediately (first time breeders). She appears to be gravid, so depending on what she produces, if anything at all this year, I might be able to determine what exactly we are dealing with. If she doesn't produce this year, I'll keep pairing her with either of those males as I really want to determine just what this black belly trait is and how it's working.

I would be interested in hearing other's findings if anybody has anything else to share on the topic.
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

I generally do not care about the belly pattern unless you are trying to make sure a conda is a conda and even then, there are some variations...

To me, the dorsal pattern is important... I try not to make a habbit of teaching my snakes to crawl on their backs so in all honesty, what the belly looks like is irrelevant...

With the exception of cobras, Hogs are the only snakes I know of that show their bellies regularly....that's an added plus and what makes these guys even cooler...IMHO

Kenny
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4.9 BCI (Developing Project)
1.1 Eastern Indigo (Takata/Bruce)
2.3 Western Hognose (Albino/Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (High Yellow/Sorong)
1.1 Kimberly Monitor
1.0 Ctenosaura Conspicuosa (Sexy Tame!)
1.1 Sahara Uromastic (Deer Fern Red Phase)
2.2 Crested Gecko
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python (Trophy)
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle (Pet)
1.0 Pitbull (Exceptional)
1.2 Kids (Hybrids)
0.1 Ball and Chain (Used)

good luck by proofing anything in this project

In many species the bellies are used as marker for genetic traits.
Just look at the cornsnakes or the BPs
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Greetings from Berlin
Stefan & Raimo

Reptiles-Breeding-Enterprise.com

Great question I agree with the former answers. Black bellies are cool regardless

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Thank you,
Kevin Rhodes

www.spiderhognose.com

http://www.freewebs.com/spreptile/index.htm
http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc314/lifesciences/?action=view¤t=09-09hognose001.jpg

i agree they are pretty cool.

Thanks everyone!

I have a male albino I paired with 2 possible het albinos which I believe were sisters.

One clutch produced normal babies with normal bellies, except one, all black belly.
Her presumed sister produced all normals and all of the have 95% all black bellies.....some completely black. The one that has the most checkers has conda like markings on the back.

funs stuff.....

Thanks again!

Kenny
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4.9 BCI (Developing Project)
1.1 Eastern Indigo (Takata/Bruce)
2.3 Western Hognose (Albino/Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (High Yellow/Sorong)
1.1 Kimberly Monitor
1.0 Ctenosaura Conspicuosa (Sexy Tame!)
1.1 Sahara Uromastic (Deer Fern Red Phase)
2.2 Crested Gecko
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python (Trophy)
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle (Pet)
1.0 Pitbull (Exceptional)
1.2 Kids (Hybrids)
0.1 Ball and Chain (Used)

Here is the female that has a conda look going on

Here is one of the babies that has the most black

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4.9 BCI (Developing Project)
1.1 Eastern Indigo (Takata/Bruce)
2.3 Western Hognose (Albino/Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (High Yellow/Sorong)
1.1 Kimberly Monitor
1.0 Ctenosaura Conspicuosa (Sexy Tame!)
1.1 Sahara Uromastic (Deer Fern Red Phase)
2.2 Crested Gecko
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python (Trophy)
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle (Pet)
1.0 Pitbull (Exceptional)
1.2 Kids (Hybrids)
0.1 Ball and Chain (Used)

Thanks for sharing! I personally love the differences in belly patterns as they are just another interesting part of the whole animal.

Here's a picture of the black belly female I just recently bred that I mentioned in my previous post:

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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

Nice BIG female! I have a 17+ year old hoggy that is 2/3rd that size.

Nice forearm tat as well...

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4.9 BCI (Developing Project)
1.1 Eastern Indigo (Takata/Bruce)
2.3 Western Hognose (Albino/Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (High Yellow/Sorong)
1.1 Kimberly Monitor
1.0 Ctenosaura Conspicuosa (Sexy Tame!)
1.1 Sahara Uromastic (Deer Fern Red Phase)
2.2 Crested Gecko
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python (Trophy)
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle (Pet)
1.0 Pitbull (Exceptional)
1.2 Kids (Hybrids)
0.1 Ball and Chain (Used)

Nice BIG female! I have a 17 year old hoggy that is 2/3rd that size.

She is a big girl as are her 3 siblings but her mother is totally huge as well (we're talking almost twice the size of the female shown), so it must be a genetic thing too as a completely separate clutch from an unrelated pairing with the same mother also yielded larger hognose than others at the same age whose father is the same for both unrelated clutches (if any of that makes sense ). That's another trait I'm very interested in, genetic size, as most of us often overlook all of the other heritable genetics involved and just look at all of the pretty dorsal coloration and patterns.

Nice forearm tat as well...

Thanks Kenny! I originally knew it as Japanese for the word Unsui meaning "seeker of knowledge" from a Zen type of book I was reading at the time but later was also told that in Chinese it means cloud & water. The definition found on Wikipedia describes it even better. I love the Buddhist Japanese culture and the ideology of Zen, plus I love seeking knowledge and enlightenment, so it was definitely a tat I was meant to have.

Your tattoo is very interesting as well, especially because it's a language I don't instantly recognize. What language is it and what does it say?
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

My females are even smaller than than the biggest female I have. They both threw out 8 eggs each and they all hatched! I can only imagine the qty a big female would produce. To be honest, I didn't even know they were gravid the first year they produced as they didn't swell up at all and they were under 12".

Mine says "thank you" but represents gratitude...personal reasons. I have 8 others, both chinese and japanese...all represent personal crap in my life.

Life is special because everyone has their own special understanding what it means...Rock On!

Thanks for sharing!

Kenny
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4.9 BCI (Developing Project)
1.1 Eastern Indigo (Takata/Bruce)
2.3 Western Hognose (Albino/Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (High Yellow/Sorong)
1.1 Kimberly Monitor
1.0 Ctenosaura Conspicuosa (Sexy Tame!)
1.1 Sahara Uromastic (Deer Fern Red Phase)
2.2 Crested Gecko
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python (Trophy)
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle (Pet)
1.0 Pitbull (Exceptional)
1.2 Kids (Hybrids)
0.1 Ball and Chain (Used)

I agree the bellies are cool on western hogs... However, they do not show them regularly... In fact, I have not had one "play dead" yet... Not one of my adults ever flipped and not one of the few dozen babies I produced ever showed their bellies...

In fact, I have not had one "play dead" yet... Not one of my adults ever flipped and not one of the few dozen babies I produced ever showed their bellies...

That's a shame as it is a treat to see, however, it has been at best very uncommon, from my experience, for fresh born hatchlings to do this and they learn quickly that it is not necessary to do, especially after a week or two once they get comfortable in their surroundings. However, I've never had a CB adult ever play dead on me, but I do have several adults that hood at me while raised up like a cobra. Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of that, but I really should try to get some, it's really cool to see.

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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

I coundn't agree more Troy! Happened to me for the first time this year...

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Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

Have a few condas that do it, but this Mexican hog did it ALL THE TIME! I think it is more common for them though. They have such small hoods but here she is tryin her best lol

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Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.