Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

About two years ago I took in an older (estimated age about 15 by now) Mexican black kingsnake of questionable background. Great temperament and demeanor, and visually Ok health, but clearly had not always received the best care from what I gathered from the guy who surrendered him. He went through an extended quarantine and passed all mite/parasite/illness tests: he was in perfect health, fully responsive, a pleasure to handle and happy to be left alone too. Kind of the ideal Kingsnake in a lot of ways. He's been a favorite of people who come by and are unfamiliar with handling snakes -- he's so calm and easy going he's the perfect "starter" so to speak.

And then a few days ago I found him laying upside down in his water dish. I thought he was dead -- I have never observed this behavior in a snake before. He wasn't dead, and was immediately responsive and aware of presence, and was moving -- but still upside down. The weather has been a bit strange here this season (but his temperatures haven't been greatly effected); he's never been one for soaking in his dish, so I figured he had a looming shed and just needed the extra help this time around. (He's always had clear, easy sheds.) I have been keeping my eye on him since then and it seemed to be an isolated thing, so I (perhaps naively) convinced myself that he'd just gotten himself in a funny position in the bowl.

He ate yesterday (normal sized meal, no problems at all -- he's always been an easy eater) and I just went in to check on him this afternoon. He was on his back again, not in the water this time. Again, instantly aware: he seemed in perfect health and totally normal... except ON HIS BACK. He moved in his typical kingsnakely way, except less effectively, being.. on his back.

I righted him and stayed present to observe for a while. No obvious problems with coordination, mobility, awareness. No signs of distress, discomfort, or pain. No stress, no fear or skittishness.

I will be bringing him to the vet very soon, but I want to go in with some knowledge. I've never encountered anything like this. What am I dealing with here? Is this a Kingsnake thing I don't know about? (I've read that one species of Kingsnake can "play dead" like the Hognose: is that what is happening?) No signs of external mites, injuries, swelling, etc.

Is he just getting old? I've never actually witnessed a snake start "showing his age". I know that Kingsnakes can live well beyond 15 years, but with a sketchy background, that can be shortened. (At one point his previous owner tried to breed him, for example, and he ate the female -- and survived. The previous owner just didn't know a whole lot about snake care at all, and demonstrate a complete disregard for concerns around heat/gradient, etc, and was feeding him on a "whenever" basis. I was amazed at how healthy he was when he came in, given those circumstances.)

Open to feedback, redirection, education, insight, etc. Please help in any way. As I said, vet is on my list, I just want to be able to offer some possible insights, as I don't actually know how specialized the vet around here is. I had a reptile/exotics vet until recently who relocated, and as I've never actually had to take any reptiles in other than basic check-ups, I've been stupidly lax in finding a replacement vet in a timely way.

Maybe he has some sort of neurological disorder? Like, he cant tell when he is upright or not. Viral infections can cause that. You are right to plan a trip to the vet.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Vet plan is in the works. My first thought was neurological, but he's displayed zero signs or symptoms of any kind to suggest that other than the "on the back" pose: no reduced mobility or coordination, total awareness and response. He's in warm water right now (to check for visible release of mites) and is moving and alert just fine: activity and response levels normal, even optimum. Nothing that I would associated with a neurological thing.

I've heard that a whole lot of "Mexican Black Kingsnakes" (Lampropeltis getula nigrita) in captivity are actually Desert Black Kingsnakes, a regional color variant of the regular Speckled Kingsnake (Lampropeltis getula splendida), which is known to "play dead". I've found a few references to people encountering this behavior in Speckled Kingsnakes.

Is it possible my king is a Black Desert, not a Mexican Black, and is just exhibiting a previously undisplayed sub-species quirk? (I'm still super paranoid and concerned, but also trying to leave room for optimism, as there's no point in disregarding a possible simple and healthy explanation.)

Good luck with the snake but wanted to correct your snake listing. The speckled king snake is lampropeltis getulus holbrooki and the desert kingsnake is Lapropeltis getulus splendida. Spellings may be off

Miller

>>Vet plan is in the works. My first thought was neurological, but he's displayed zero signs or symptoms of any kind to suggest that other than the "on the back" pose: no reduced mobility or coordination, total awareness and response. He's in warm water right now (to check for visible release of mites) and is moving and alert just fine: activity and response levels normal, even optimum. Nothing that I would associated with a neurological thing.
>>
>>I've heard that a whole lot of "Mexican Black Kingsnakes" (Lampropeltis getula nigrita) in captivity are actually Desert Black Kingsnakes, a regional color variant of the regular Speckled Kingsnake (Lampropeltis getula splendida), which is known to "play dead". I've found a few references to people encountering this behavior in Speckled Kingsnakes.
>>
>>Is it possible my king is a Black Desert, not a Mexican Black, and is just exhibiting a previously undisplayed sub-species quirk? (I'm still super paranoid and concerned, but also trying to leave room for optimism, as there's no point in disregarding a possible simple and healthy explanation.)
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1.1 Black Pine
1.2 Still Water Hypos
0.1 Possibly stillwater x Red Bull
1.2 N. Pinesnake
1.1 Eastern Kings
1.0 Black Milksnake
1.0 Chow Chow(2003 Papi)
0.1 Cat(Shug)

You are correct -- thank you for pointing that out. I was in "concern panic mode" and confused the species.

As an update I've found a few people with experience with the so-called "desert kingsnake" and its playing dead routine -- which sounds like what I observed in my black king.

This seems to indicate that he is actually a desert black kingsnake (Lampropeltis getula splendida) rather than a Mexican Black, as I had been informed when I took him in. What's strange is that I can't find any direct references (other than mentions in passing) to desert black kings in captivity. Am I the first person to observe & report the "playing dead" or is this just something that isn't mentioned much?

I'm keeping an eye on him -- but no signs of any other health concerns whatsoever. I've downgraded concern level slightly and will keep a vet visit on standby (I'll be collecting stool samples when he goes next). He's in quarantine for now.

I didn't know kings would play dead. Hognose snakes do that; the first hognose I ever found played dead and I fell for it, thinking Yuck! and dropping it back into the grass. LOL!
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

laying on their back is not normal. And the two snakes your talking about are the same. The mexican black king is the same as a desert black king. Which also is a "splendida"

Where Black kings occur, there are also non black kings and inbetween black kings.