Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The Supernova is a tripple morph:

Manderinebelly
Jungle
Leopard

who wants to be the first owner of a SUPERNOVA in the united states??

http://www.snake-planet.eu

Looks incredible. What does the Mandarin Jungle, the Mandarin leopard, and the Leopard jungle look like themselves. I assume you produced some of those also. Also, how do you know all of the super novas posted are indeed the triple gene combo and not a leopard mandarin or leopard jungle?

Personally, I think it looks great, but to avoid confusion with Jeff Ronne's Nova boas, I will call it a Mandarin Jungle Leopard.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

I like it I say keep the name it looks like a super nova with all that color and crazy pattern mixed in! Wouldnt be confused with the Nova phenotype animals.
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Brandon Nixon

I just looked at a bunch of Jeffs pics of nova boas and I dont see a morph there. They look like any other abbarent hypo boas to me. I am not an expert but that is my opinion.

Just because something that is genetic looks like something that is only random aberration does not make them the same. Reproducing said trait consistently with results that bear evidence of a single gene mutation is the difference.

Of course, this works both ways. And there are plenty of Jonny-come-latelys which claim new mutations, just because something is a little or a lot different, without taking the time to prove it by the numbers. Eyes on the money with their cart before the horse, usually making for a short, disappointing ride.

This is not a defense of Jeff, or his Nova line. Just a fact, plain and simple.

Checking your facts before popping off is always recommended.
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Jesse Van Atta
www.foreverboas.com

"Continuing to cling to the patterns you know, inhibits your ability to discover what you don't know." - Eric Allenbaugh

I agree fully with John and think about it this way Jesse and anyone else who reads this.

If you are a no name person who produced animals with those similar characteristics and called them a morph and put a name on it you would be laughed out of the hobby plain and simple.

Do those animals have a unique look yeah they look similar to other abby type boas, the abby line of basically boas and cyclones that robert mcphee produced they are line of abby type boas I wouldn't consider that a morph by no stretch just like I dont consider pastels a morph but some of you would disagree it is a line bred trait not a genetic mutation.
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Brandon Nixon

Absolutely agree. Any noname breeder who would claim a new morph like Jeff is doing would be laughed at. I did in fact check my facts Jesse and I stand behind my original statement. I just have to remember to keep my mouth shut because the boa world is so tight and actually challenging one of the BOA GODS is only going to get a bunch of people running to his side and try to defend said person.

Unfortunately, Jeff never has said he KNOWS exactly how and what the Nova's are exactly genetically. Only how they "seem" to be working. The fact is the door is still open for any possibility regarding this absolutely genetic and heritable, if not completely understood, characteristic is, to be anything except "line" bred. That it CANNOT be because they were not LINE bred. Then again, that never stopped anyone from using that term, that most people who toss that one around, don't have the slightest idea what it even means. Then again, being ill informed never prevented anyone from sounding off. That how free speak works.

Sorry about the poor grammar on this post. I just banged it and and I have other things to do. Hohum...
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

So basically you agree with me but are too afraid to say so? You said yourself that if it was a johhny come lately naming this a morph he would be laughed at.

As one of the "Johnny come lately(even though I've been a pet owner/hobbyist/breeder for decades now)" that's currently being laughed at I have a unique perspective. Even if something is selectively bred "morph" or polygenic "morph" it is still a morph if it is a predictably attained through breeding visibly different phenotype...still not necessarily a "mutant." Over the years I've saw (and still see) "the boa gods," as they are called, market "morphs" after a relative few breedings without completely understanding genetics. They get away with it, and I don't understand why. How many Swedish jungles were on the market without knowing if there was a super being marketed as "codom?" Same for other codom/dom morphs. I remember multiple ads for het hypomels back in the day. I still don't understand why people aren't more inquisitive about why there's multiple phenotypes of supers in Aztecs (and why they seem to get more variable when outcrossed), not that I don't believe they're a morph. So, do Mandarin-bellies have a super? Are Onyx recessive or codom? All I know is my "morph" has bred out over the years to be dominant (although I can't conclusively rule out a super yet) in multiple litters, inbred, line-bred and outbred, with pretty consistent results although they are quite variable (as are jungles, Aztecs, etc.) and yet the "boa Gods" producing things they themselves can't entirely define are laughing at me! Meanwhile people are paying large amounts to them for ill defined morphs possibly just polygenic/line bred, or possibly having no super, etc.,; and don't even get me started on things like "dominant striped sand boas"

Out of Respect in this hobby when someone else has already named a project and
used a given name people do not use a form of that name
already being used to name their project.

Jeff Ronne named his project "Nova Boas" back in 2006. Every possibility remains that a Super form of
Jeff's Nova Boa could be produced yet.

It would be Respectful to rename your triple gene project.

These beautiful Leopard - Mandarin Belly - Jungle are a great
out come they look wonderful.

Although the name needs to be reworked in my opinion.

Thx

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Wouldn't a Super Nova been produced by now?

Jeff first produced them in 06, and when he puts two Boas together, they usually produce a litter..
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Does The Boa Business Need More Internet Marketing?
I'd Love To Hear Your "2 Cents"
http://boaconstrictorfacts.blogspot.com

A Slow grown fem wouldn't be ready for about 5 years.

So that would be this season.

The catch is Jeff steers away from breeding siblings.

So no sibling pairing equals no Super as of yet.

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Gotchya...
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Does The Boa Business Need More Internet Marketing?
I'd Love To Hear Your "2 Cents"
BoaConstrictorFacts

I disagree Larry these is a totally different animal and will be fully reproducible I am sure. If you look and watch the Boa Breeding video put out by Rich Ihle and Tracy you will see Rich talking about all the differences in the animals that he was producing out of Hypo litters that didn't pan out to much. The nova seems to be something of similar fashion nothing against those animals Jeff has produced but something's just weren't ment to be look at the " Red Devil "
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Brandon Nixon

FIRST, let me just say, I called this to be a Leopard Mandaring Belly! not sure why but it just came to mind right away when I saw it. The jungle influence took me by surprise, and I wonder in an animal like this how can you tell which ones do or do not have Jungle, however I believe it does if the breeder says so as I am sure there are siblings in the litter that assist in differentiating.

In regards to the "NAME", because Nova already exists, and regardless of what personal opinions individuals may have about it and whether it is a proven morph with a Super example or not, or if its a line like a Lipstick, Orangasm, Pastel Dream it is ONLY RIGHT that "SUPER with the word NOVA" is not used. Furthermore there is still a possibility that indeed the Nova Boa has a Super, not sure why anyone would want to trump that process. This all boils down to Boa breeder etiquette OR ethics or whatever "gentlemenly" title you want to call it. And it ahs everything to do with dont do to someone else what you wouldnt want done to you. These sort of issues have to be nipped in the bud IMMEDIATELY as they can fester and thats a road I dont think we want to go down for the sake of the hobby (OUR PASSION). I agree that boa looks very much like the picture of the supernova anomoly, however be that as it may, I am sure there other objects in myth, nature, space or science that can resemble the look of this gorgeous animal. By the way at this point let me just say the thing is mouth watering gorgeous!

I recommended a "Valentine Boa" or maybe Valentine's Boa as they look like chocolate covered Strawberries a common snack/gift on Valentines Day. I am sure theres many names that could be given why use one thats been "taken".

My 2 cents on the matter.

Manny out!

I think that if and when Mr.Ronne produces "supernovas" he will have to call them what they are, supernovas. It is pretty much a respect and avoidance of confusion issue. Think about all the emails you might get and have to answer regarding the relationship of yours to the nova boas. I suppose Mr. Ronne could forward you the emails he might get as a mutual sign of respect. Fun times ahead?

How about Crusader Leopard Boas? My high school colors were burnt orange and brown and our mascot was the Crusader. And with Brother Rice of Chicago being ranked as a national academic top 50 high school you can't go wrong. I doubt there are any copyright issues for this situation and I am pretty sure their biology students will be able to do a triple het cross Punnett square to figure out all the genotypic and pheontypic ratios.

I have saw this in peafowl, where people that sort of were friends became sort of enemies over who picked what name first. I myself never thought it's a good idea to give "morph names" to new combos of existing morphs. I think it eliminates confusion calling albino bloods "albino bloods" instead of "red dragons" for instance. However, as far as I am aware, "etiquette" is to allow the person who first produces something the right to name it (no matter how confusing that name may make matters); there was no "supernova" prior to this (and may never be a "super Nova". I admit that I'd prefer to call them Mandarin-jungle-leopards than supernovas, but I believe he is well within his rights to keep the name if he so desires. (Afterall, a similar condition exists between "Inca Leopards (Hans Winner)" and "Incas(Dan Sutherland), and I know which is which.)

When I look at that last photo I can see why you are thinking supernova. It looks like an interesting mix laid over black, like a stellar explosion. So to end all of this discussion re the name, how about Nebula boa? Look at this image of the Crab Nebula for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crab_Nebula.jpg

Just a thought...
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