Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have 2 hatchling Alterna that are so freaking stubborn.

I've tried scenting using house gecko, side blotch and I should note even used saliva from a side blotch, anole...no strikes or refused completely. I've tried live pinkies scented and non scented, f/t pinkies scented and non...no success. Braining didn't make any difference. I even washed the pinkies.

Heck, I even took one of them with me in the car and drove for a good 15 to 20 minutes with no success. The second Alterna is with a man named Ray who used to run the IRBA shows. After 2 failed attempts, I hope to hear good news with the third and final attempt. I am crossing my fingers while I call him tomorrow. Phew, I am out of sorts as these guys are killer looking. Does anybody have any other tricks or methods? I was considering holding the snake by the neck with a pinkie in the other hand and tease method but I am hoping they will eat on their own as they have lots of egg yolk in their system. It doesn't look like they will ever catch on though so I am freaking concerned or worried.

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You can never have only one snake!

I should also mention that I have kept over 20 Alterna throughout my keeping and they were all purchased as non feeders. I was able to get all of them feeding eventually on unscented but these guys are the hardest I've ever dealt with. I should question my obsession with Alterna but I have a love and hate relationship so I will never stop keeping them lol!

I know a lot of snake owners here would only think of ripping out their hairs out of frustration from stubborn feeders. I am so stressed and worried about these guys. I wish it was Spring for ten days so I could get them to eat lol
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You can never have only one snake!

*I'm sorry I left that detail out lol

*They are kept in a large but still small critter tote with a small UTH on one side. Paper towel used for bedding and the water dish on the non heated side. Hide spot is on heated side. I cover the totes every side with a dark towel so it is dark inside the cage. The top is ventilated so I covered it as well leaving little room for ventilation.

*When I feed I have also tried overnight only to find a disgusting odor every morning! I haven't handled them as of yet and will wait until they are about 20 inches or gain some size. I wonder if the UTH that is built for 1-5 gallons is too hot since they seem to be on the cool side most of the time. I am trying to combat this by creating a thicker layer of cover or newspaper on the bottom but it hasn't worked as they are still on the cool side more often.

No central air cooling just room temps. Cage temp is at 79 but can be 80 to 81 when the day heats up.
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You can never have only one snake!

Do they have a moist sphagnum moss hide? This essential piece of snake furniture can be made out of any plastic container with an entrance hole and stuffed with long fibered orchid moss.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Could you give us some info about how you have them set up? Things like temps, size of container their kept in, type of substrate, hides and if so describe them. Do you leave food in overnight? How often do you disturb them? Are they in a brightly lit aquarium or a dark drawer of some kind. If in an aquarium does it have a screen top cover. If their kept in a central cooled and heated area, a screen top aquarium can get super dry which is never good but you can fix that by covering most of the top and just leaving a crack in each end.
Sorry if all these questions seem annoying but many of these things can make a big difference in how a snake feeds, especially a hatchling.
There are a lot of knowledgeable keepers on this forum and they can help you much better with more info.
You will often get very vague awnsers but with more info you will get more specific recommendations which will help more.
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Randy Whittington

Take them for a drive. Then twirl them above your head whilst singing Do-the-hoky-poky. LOL! Just kidding.

Without seeing how you keep them, it is hard to give advice.

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www.Bluerosy.com

These animals live in nature, without you. They know when to eat, when not to eat, how much to eat, etc. Why do you think they cannot do that in captivity? They do know, you are suppose to support what THEY DO, not hold back food because you keep them at temps they would not pick.
Frank Retes

I'm sorry I left that detail out lol

They are kept in a large but still small critter tote with a small UTH on one side. Paper towel used for bedding and the water dish on the non heated side. Hide spot is on heated side. I cover the totes every side with a dark towel so it is dark inside the cage. The top is ventilated so I covered it as well leaving little room for ventilation.

When I feed I have also tried overnight only to find a disgusting odor every morning! I haven't handled them as of yet and will wait until they are about 20 inches or gain some size. I wonder if the UTH that is built for 1-5 gallons is too hot since they seem to be on the cool side most of the time. I am trying to combat this by creating a thicker layer of cover or newspaper on the bottom but it hasn't worked as they are still on the cool side more often.

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

Also just room temperature, no central cool air. The temp is usually around 79 but goes up to 80 to 81 when the day warms up. The hide spot is a exo-terra small cave.
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You can never have only one snake!

These things I'm mentioning are things that I've found to work good for me over the years.

Babies always seem to do better when they have some kind of substrate they can burrow in. They feel much more secure and it holds some humidity better. You can use aspen bedding, soil and sand mixes, cypress mulch(but make sure cypress mulch isn't more than slightly damp as it's generally pretty damp right out of the bag". When you use one of the deeper substrates you can just slightly dampen a small corner to give it access to a little more humidity. They don't have to actually lie in the moist area but can move away or to depending on what they want.

I would use a hide on the warm and cool side, not just on one side. When they have a substrate to burrow in they can still hide while using the area that has the temps they prefer even if it's in the middle where there isn't a hide.

It's really best if you can actually find out what the temps are inside the cage. On the cooler side and the warmer side. If the temps in the room are in the upper 70's to the low 80's there is no telling how warm the side over the UTH is. In smaller cages it can make the cooler side too warm depending on how close the heater is to the bottom, how much of the cage the UTH is under and weather it's on a thermostat of some kind for adjusting the temp. I have to say that it's hard to incorperate a heated area when your overall room temps get that warm.

If you change is't setup and give it a few days it will likely be much more inclined to feed.

These are just some things that have worked good for me. There are other things you can do but these are just some things that come to mind right away.
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Randy Whittington

Hi,
a friend of mine scents his mice or rats with juice from canned tuna for his non eaters. Seems to do the trick he says.

I've heard of that before with success as well. What was the tuna can he was using? Let me know!

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

Try skinks if you can find any. Also try feeding the actyal lizard then switch to scented. I usually have good results with brain feeding, which you said you already tried, but I haven't had one that I couldn't get to eat by tease feeding. Though I do use it as a last resort, since it does stress the little guys a bit.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

There was a nice looking Alterna back then that I fed a couple of lizards and for some reason I was never able to get him to scented as he would fiend for lizards even after quite some time. If they don't feed after every method then I should give them some lizards. The tease feeding is on hold as well!! Thanks Jorge!

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

I think if they still have a lot of yolk reserve (which they can have for several weeks) that once the yolk reserve has been completely consumed they will get hungry. As you know, I have two little buggers of my own that are trying my patience, but I do think the yolk reserve is still in play with them, and if I wait they will eventually eat. I do offer food in their cages daily, and try hand feeding a couple times a week to those who do not eat the pink in their cage.

the main reason I suspect the yolk reserve is that I even offered my two stubborn ones a live fence lizard, and all that happened is the poor little lizard had a day of terror. "Dear God, I hope it doesn't see me!" Prayers answered, lizard back in its own cage.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Ya know, that might actually play a factor.

Bob, I did play a little bit not so long ago and placed a lizard in the cage and one didn't even look interested in the lizard so maybe the egg yolk is still reserved. I'm sure they will come around eventually on their own. I haven't pushed them but just place a pinkie in the cage but I will give them some time off. Makes you wonder though lol

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

I believe I read that Mr. Applegate suggested a short mock brumation may do the trick. Cooling the snake for a short period and warming it back up. This trick was used for stubborn snakes that are born late in the season

I've always had a problem figuring out how to brumate them because even during the winter where I live which is in San Diego, CA, the temps are still around 67 at most times. That is a great idea though.

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!