Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here they are so far.............

Kerby...

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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

So these are not true Ghosts with axnnthic in them, correct?

Did you ever get a hold of some axanthic calif kings?
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www.Bluerosy.com

Like I have said before......these are a single recessive gene and are called Ghost/Palomar cal kings. I have had this same conversation with you at least three other times on this forum.

I have never seen or heard of axanthic cal kings.....please post a pic and their history.....thanks.

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Someone had a pair of "axanthic" cali kings available in the classifieds a little while back... They were obvious intergrades. You really made the most out of the Ghost morph, my favorite is still the light ghost.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles
www.kingpinreptiles.com

Gotta be careful about what you see on the k-snake classifieds LOL All kinds of incorrect labeled cal kings with erroneous gentic info!

And I think you got the better looking light Ghost from last year. I should have kept that one instead.

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

These are from wildcaught parentage.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Why no head shots?

Just saying...........

Again what is the history?

Who, what, where, how,.........

They look like regular cal kings that haven't gone through a shed yet....like in the blue.

Still need proof of an axanthic cal king.......

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Krby,

They are REAL!
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www.Bluerosy.com

So why not answer the questions?

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Wow, I hatched some just like that two years ago. Half the clutch had a waxy look to the light rings. I didn't think much of them so I got rid of them. I still don't think its anything special unless u know for sure they have kept that look over time, Rainer. I could be wrong though. One thing I do know is I have hatched Long Beach hypers with that same look and it changed over time. The female that produced them, I no longer have but that was the first time I had seen that in about 3 clutches from her. The male, which I still have, that was the one and only time I bred him. He already looks hypo, so I am just waiting to get a female from the same locale so I can hold back a little female to breed back to him and see if the hypomelanistic gene proves out. He is wild caught and the female I got rid of was also wc, but they were found about 100 miles apart.

No thse are definetly axanthics. I know the breeder and he raised them. That pic is several years old.

At first i was scepticale to. Then i met with him in Daytona and I got a chance to discuss with him. I also found out he has been breeding snakes for sevral decades and is very experinced with breeding and morphs.. So he knows what he is talking about.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"its kinda like your model builders that work from a kit, if you follow the instructions, its suppose to come out well. Unfortunately, snakes are alive and all manner of things can go wrong, at any time for a million reasons. The truth is, most of those reasons are NOT INCLUDED IN YOUR KIT(husbandry recipe) that you get over the internet. Those are the fun things you get to learn on your own.

Its like you folks think your perfect. Well how you judge that is not what you think, but your results. They tell you how good you did. And that means, past tense. As each and every time you do it, your can succeed or fail. There are no guarantees, no matter how much you know. You must apply your knowledge, each and everytime, and each and everytime the results are a measure of your ability and effort. "

Frank Retes

I believe you. With all the Cal kings out there for all these years, I'm surprised these didn't pop up sooner. Do you know if the dark bands are at all affected by this trait?

From what i have seen this is a trait similar tro the axanthic 9not anery) in Florida kings. Looks like the same type of axanthic.

Which probably means they get light bands and possibly lighter inbewteen the bands where the dak bands are.

I know the breeder has had a heck of a time getting them started as he lost some visuals and is now breding back to the original parents.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"its kinda like your model builders that work from a kit, if you follow the instructions, its suppose to come out well. Unfortunately, snakes are alive and all manner of things can go wrong, at any time for a million reasons. The truth is, most of those reasons are NOT INCLUDED IN YOUR KIT(husbandry recipe) that you get over the internet. Those are the fun things you get to learn on your own.

Its like you folks think your perfect. Well how you judge that is not what you think, but your results. They tell you how good you did. And that means, past tense. As each and every time you do it, your can succeed or fail. There are no guarantees, no matter how much you know. You must apply your knowledge, each and everytime, and each and everytime the results are a measure of your ability and effort. "

Frank Retes

That's interesting. I wonder if the problems he's had has to do with that morph. I heard the original ghost Cal kings also had some kind of issue in the beginning and had to be out crossed because of it. I also heard their pattern originally was not like what we see today.

Maybe some others may have possibly noted this too, but not once in this entire thread has the fact been brought up whether or not these snakes normal phenotype are supposed to ONLY involve shades of yellow/beige and black, and absolutely ZERO pure white and black color scheme. Only if these snakes geneology naturally involve only shades of yellows to their normal phenotype and never any white could they even possibly be considered "axanthic" in the first place.

To me, this would be the very first thing that would have to be considered, then go from there.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

We are not allowed to talk about them. They are a secret. Shhhhhh.............
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

How are you supposed to know? Can it be figured out?

Well, it could be figured out, but it would take a while to do. If you test breed them with snakes with a known recessive hypo gene, produce the alleged double hets, and later bred those together and produce any "ghost" type animals, then it would prove the snakes in question to be axanthic. Or if you bred them to another totally normal line that is normally ALWAYS yellow and black/brown(never white and black/brown)such as certain yellow coastals and these were also known to NOT be het carriers for any of these traits to give false outcomes, produced hets, then bred them back to each other and produced pure white(possibly bluish hued) hatchlings, it would be pretty obvious that they were indeed axanthic.

But just by looking at some it wouldn't "prove" beyond a doubt that they were truly axanthic unless it was proven first that it was truly a recessively inherited trait.

Now I don't have any idea what the origin of these are, I am ONLY saying that they would have to be proven before you really knew they were truly axanthic, and not merely going by their white bands is all I am saying. The guy could have done this already for all I know, My only point here is that you really can't say they are axanthic by the photo alone without knowing what types of lineage originated them.

Additionally, I saw the same ad Jimmy was talking about and the animals were "said" to be axanthic Cal. kings but looked like crosses with the known axanthic splendidas in the hobby. I don't see the same look in that photo Rainer posted, I am just saying that I didn't believe the ad Jimmy and I saw a good while back as to them NOT having the axanthic gene from splendida. Those looked like DEFINITE crosses to me. I think THAT particular line was indeed a californiae x axanthic splendida cross that Jimmy and I looked at. Not saying this one is or isn't, just that it would have to be proved-out.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

OK I see what you are saying now. I understood your original message wrong. WAY WRONG. lol That's what happens when you don't put things in simple English for guys like me to understand. hahaha Yeah, there is definitely a way to test breed them with yellow coastals if in doubt.

Yeah, if this was already done and known for certain, then yeah, they would be axanthics. But if not, then it isn't known if they are truly axanthic yet the way I see it.

This is really all I am saying, because I don't know anything about them at all other than what can be seen in the one photo. If this is already known, then fine, if not, they still have to be proven in some way or another to be truly termed axanthic.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Unless there is something I'm missing, it seems like a useless morph for Cal kings when there are already white banded kings in this subspecies. I can see how it looked cool on desert kings that never had white.

On second thought, it would be a cool gene to introduce to the BEB's and lavender.

..exactly, I was just going to say something similar in your post above. Sure, by phenotype ALONE in a black and white form of Cal. king, it wouldn't be a big deal per se, but they could make many other combinations of new phenotypes in the Cal. king arena.

It's sort of like a hybino Honduran(amel x hypo). The animal itself looks no different than an everyday normal amel, but it is really about what combinations of morphs that particular combo can PRODUCE that makes it far better to have, not what the hybino looks like phenotypically to the eye..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

m
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g
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Those ghosts are all awesome dude.
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

Thanks, some of my special projects are now producing.

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

>>Here they are so far.............
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>>Kerby...
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>>Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.
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Very Nice Kerby!!
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www.mesozoicreptiles.com

Thanks!

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Wow!!!!! Those are so awesome--I can't decide which one I like best!!!! Thanks for sharing the picks!!!!

Pat

Thanks Pat.

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.