Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been starting to breed all my own insects for my monitors, as to better maintain the health of the feeders and therefore my monitors. I was wondering if anyone has tried feeding their monitors any aquatic snails such as the mystery snails you can pick up at any general aquatics store. I don't know anything about aquatics or snails for that matter, but I know that the shells contain a good level of calcium. I'm just worried there might be some natural defense the snails have that the fish that feed on them in the water have simply built a tolerance against. If anyone has any knowledge on the subject, I'd appreciate any sort of head way. Thanks in advance!

Hi masonmonitors,
I`ve used "Apple" snails a few times, but they are too expensive where I`m living (U.K). Can I ask which varanid species you keep?

Oh, I live in the US and they're pretty cheap. Also, I hear they are very easy to breed, and spawn up to a hundred at a time. So they liked them though? I have a Nile monitor, two Savannahs, and a possibly temporary Ornate monitor. The ornate was sort of a rescue situation, but I'm not sure I have the time for him. I've just spent five hundred dollars building cages for them though, so I guess I'm all in!

Hi again,
yes, by the sound of it you are in for the duration!
All my monitors have relished snails, although you mention the shell is full of calcium (true), they mainly crush them and spit the shell out.
Do you have any pics of the animals and enclosures, also, can you give details of present foods and feeding regime, etc, etc? Thanks!

Oh, so would slugs maybe be better if they don't eat the shells? I feed them five or six days a week, just a small amount. I've read that it will keep their bodies matobolizing(I don't know if that's a real word but you know what I mean) without fattening them up. They're still looking healthy, and active. The best part is that their feeding response has gotten much better. I feed my older savannah solely invertebrates, Roaches, the can 'o snails, superworms, occasionally crickets although the crickets never get eaten because they hide so well in the rather dense foliage. I also have been including once a week, a mixture of two eggs, lean ground turkey meat, as well as vitamins as a treat. He likes that a lot, but I'm trying to keep his diet relative to what it would be in the wild. As for the younger savannah, the only things that he'll eat are nymph roaches and pinkies. The interesting part is that while he's still a hatchling, he readily accepts food right off the tongs, and usually responds even better to tong feeding than if I just drop the food in there. As for the nile and the ornate, I feed them a more meaty diet than the savannah, with the turkey mixture twice a week, scrambled eggs as well, fish, fuzzies, and the occasional roaches. I'll get photos along soon!

Hi, my opinions on food choice have changed somewhat over the last few months (thanks to Mr. Frank Retes), there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that varanids can remain in excellent health, be long-lived and productive, when fed a diet based on rodents alone, though personally, I still offer a little variety, I`ve always fed rodents as a base. So clearly, rodents alone are excellent, and all that`s needed in captivity, for most species...
I can also tell you that savannah monitors are NOT "specialised" insectivores in the wild. In the location that Daniel Bennett studied this species, those animals fed mainly on Giant African millipedes and snails, not "insects". As far as I know, Daniel has never said they cannot eat rodents or other vertebrate prey in captivity!

Hi, I think that gets worded a little wrong. Or a little confusing.

A rodent diet has proved to produce the best results and it the most RELIABLE diet so far. Anything else actually takes away from that.

Of course I too feed other items once in a while, just for the heck of it.

ALso Daniels study, was short term, narrow focus of time, and prejudiced. Prejudiced in that he did not look at other places, different times of the year and at different stages of life.

For instance the key to a successful diet is NOT day to day, but how that diet supports the periods of need, like growth, reproduction, and regain energy after reproduction.

If your keeping a monitor static, that is, its not doing any of those, then a rich diet like rodents is not REQUIRED.

Also, in field studies, they never related stomach contents(diet) to task. Much of the time in nature feeding is merely to get the monitor to the next day(subsistance) As in, the diet is not strong enough to allow rapid growth, reproduction etc. Whats more important in nature is what did they feed on to grow quickly, or produce fat bodies enough to reproduce, or to recondition themselves are drought(lack of food) or other energy stressful events. Thanks

Where have you read that? I should specify, I'm talking about Savannah monitors particularly.

Its not about reading it somewhere, I have kept and bred over 20 species throught many many many generations. Include albigs.

I have kept Savs here, but not to breed. They responded in the very same way as the other species.

Hi, are you talking to me when you ask where I read that Savannah monitors aren`t specialised "insect" feeders (at least in the area Daniel Bennett studied them)?
If yes, it was stated very clearly by Daniel Bennett himself, here on this very forum some months ago!
Perhaps you could contact Daniel, and ask him for confirmation, or check back through the threads?!
I`ve also had a discussion with him on this subject.....

Hey Frank,
Maybe you should actually read Daniels work before commenting on it. Your statements show that you have not bothered to read his reports(readily available on his website) and that it is YOU who are prejudiced. Why not allow the keepers here to learn the truth?
Why are the sav's that are kept with high temps, good soil etc still obese when feed a diet strictly consisting of rodents? If feeding rodents along with proper husbandry is such a magic bullet for sav's, why don't we see ANY captive bred? Have you actually seen any of the sav's that are kept in good conditions and feed mainly inverts compared to those who are also kept in good conditions and feed rodents?
Maybe you can rave out on me again and tell me how all monitors are exactly the same (oh except the species I keep, right!)It's always so fun to read your pre-packaged rants.
Ben

Thanks! I was wondering where my back up was haha. It really does surprise me sometimes when I see keepers that still think they can bend the rules of nature.

Captivity in its self is bending the rules-methods to achieve conditions in captivity is bending the rules-You're going to bend the rules when you try to replicate the natural diet-i find it amusing what people rationalize to replace items Sav's eat in the wild not readily available.I've seen such things substituted as fish, scallops the list goes on,talk about hypocritical.

How would a keeper bend the rules of nature?

That would be a cool trick indeed.

The invertebrate diet is the most popular promoted method of raising Sav's on these forums by far.If you even mention feeding rodents to Sav's you're jumped on by two or three people-so let's see the proof,Ben.With this reasoning there should be lots of breedings by the method superior to feeding Sav's exclusively rodents.

proof of what?
My point was that we should be dealing with the reality of the situation and the studies not prejudice and conjecture.
There are plenty of obeese sav's to prove the point, and there have been a few successful breeding's of sav's fed mainly invert diet that have been published.
To me the proof that we are doing a flat out lousy job with these guys is that there is NOT much successful breeding of this species.
I would disagree that most people are keeping them properly and feeding inverts, from what I see 90% or more are kept undermatabolised and fed rodents. How does just recommending rodents as a base diet help promote proper care of this species?
I do not keep sav's anymore, but have bred monitors to many generations and keep several species that are considered "specialized".
Perhaps you can tell me why an all rodent diet is best and show your reasoning for thinking so.
Where are the sav's that are fed an all rodent diet that are breeding? If rodents are a magic bullet where is your proof?
Ben

Those endorsing a rodent diet based on proper husbandry are a minority on most forums.So if the most popular methods is being used shouldn't it make sense that there would be more success.People are taking the advice of the majority ,i see it everyday-apparently our realities are different

I think one of the problems on many forums is that it`s "beginner" teaches beginner, teaches beginner.....
Isn`t that one of the reasons why these animals (varanids), die in their thousands every single year, and are seldom long lived and productive, not because of an "unsuitable" (rodent?) diet, rather unsuitable husbandry methods (undermetabolised, as has been said)??

Hi Ben, How about rewording you reply and make it not an attack.

You can link to said paper and actually help instead of attacking. You big fat dork, hahahahahahahahaha

And yes, I have kept Savs here on a rodent diet and they did not get fat. But then its froging hot here. But then its frogging hot where they live too.

ALso, I did not say its work was wrong, its not, its just not all enclusive. Unless hes done something new, I not only read some of his work, but he came here and talked about it.

Also, I have to wonder why a website makes any difference.

As Daniel would put it, we are talking about Lizards in boxes.

By the way, when working with species, they can and DO have a range of base diets, that is based on local and timing. They tend to focus on a plentiful supply of prey. In daniels case, that supply is based on feral agricultural fields.

But anyway, try helping. not attacking.

So, I see little has changed since I'e been gone. = )

How ya been Frank?

Glad to see your still fighting the good fight and having fun doing it!

exelent post...bet you Dan still dont get this?

Sorry, I'll broaden my terms and say "invertebrates". Every study I've read has said that they are far to fatty and it usually floods their liver and kidney. How long do your monitors live for? Anyways, here is one of the seemingly viable sites I've read it from. http://savannahmonitor.org/feeding/rodents/

Hi, hey just some info about snails from an agricultural pest control point of view (what i do) snails can and do eat things that kill vertebrates,I have seen snails and slugs eat so much rodenticide that their skin color actually changes and they live just fine, so be sure to flush them by feeding them for some time yourself, also for aquatics the fish tanks/ponds they are in are prone to chemicals Ph up/down etc and they will have that in their systems,also the creeks/drainage areas in the US are prone to spraying by local vector control so again self raising/feeding will be key. snails will usually eat damp dry dog food, what I have been playing with is feeding land snails mazuri crocodilian diet with dark greens for a while before using as food. Also the US snails fail to reach the size of those from other countries, most notably the giant African land snail (Achatina ssp) that can have 10 inche shells. sorry so long