Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Het Axanthic and Lavender....

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Huh?
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www.Bluerosy.com

**Het Axanthic and Lavender**

Just a disclaimer so the bozos & clowns on this forum don't start attacking me for asking questions.......... I am not starting anything here....just asking questions.

But what were the parents? Obviously both parents had to be at least het for hypermelanistic in order to produce a hypermelanistic and in order for this snake to be het for axanthic & lavender either:

Both/or one parent was displaying both axanthic & hypermelanistic at the same time....corect?

Or one was a Purple Passion (Lavender & Hypermelanism) and one was an axanthic, het hypermelanistic?

Please show pics of the parents. I would like to see an axanthic cal king.

Thanks

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Don't show it to him. LOL!
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www.Bluerosy.com

.
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When we were kids we would find them while hiking in Chino. They were dark and we wanted the light individuals. So we would just snap their little necks and throw them off to the side of the trail.

Now people want to see pictures of them...sheesh!~
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www.Bluerosy.com

How does a dark animals equal an Axanthic? Wouldn't that be hypermelinistic, or melanistic? Just asking, I'm not a Cal King follower.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

>>How does a dark animals equal an Axanthic? Wouldn't that be hypermelinistic, or melanistic? Just asking, I'm not a Cal King follower.

This animal is ONLY expressing Hypermelanism....It is heterozygous for Lavender Albino and Axanthism.....It is not Axanthic but carries the gene.......

Its parents are both Hypermelanistic (Double hets for Lavender & Axanthic). It has Purple Passion Siblings. It has Lavender & WHITE Banded Siblings. It has Black & WHITE banded siblings. And it has other hypermel siblings.
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

**Its parents are both Hypermelanistic (Double hets for Lavender & Axanthic). It has Purple Passion Siblings.**

Then it is a hypermelanistic that is POSSIBLE HET for axanthic and lavender.

Just saying.......

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

>>**Its parents are both Hypermelanistic (Double hets for Lavender & Axanthic). It has Purple Passion Siblings.**
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>>Then it is a hypermelanistic that is POSSIBLE HET for axanthic and lavender.
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>>Just saying.......

Again...you are correct Kerby......
I am not arguing anything about them....I just wanted to share what was told to me.....
Thanks for clearing that up for me.....I actually should've known that and posted it before my initial post.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

That sounds really cool John. My comment was to Rainer saying he used to find them all the time and snap their dark necks or something. It is definately a cool aquisition. Congrats! By the way how Purple are the purple passions as adults? Anyone have any pics?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

>>That sounds really cool John. My comment was to Rainer saying he used to find them all the time and snap their dark necks or something. It is definately a cool aquisition. Congrats! By the way how Purple are the purple passions as adults? Anyone have any pics?

Here's a foreign link I found to some decent photos of one....
http://herpsupply.at.webry.info/200910/article_13.html
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

you were serious about being foreign! Maybe it's my monitor but it those didn't look very purple? Thanks for the link!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Yeah, the pics are pretty dark too. But regardless of that, the adults aren't as purple colored as young snakes are when you can still see through into their body tissue, but they are still interesting looking.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I will share a pic of its Axanthic and Lavender sibling when I get home after the Austin, TX show.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Thanks, how about a picture of the parents?

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

>>Thanks, how about a picture of the parents?
>>

Kerby,
If I am lucky I can get them next week or the week after......I have an email sent to the breeder. He was trying to sell me the adults in Daytona and I decided not to....Now I think I want them......If he still has them....

If I do get them I would appreciate your expert opinion on them.

I am leary of the "axanthic" thing myself, but I am not sure.
If a Hypermel produces an offspring (lavender or normal) with white bands is that axanthic? I dunno.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I don't think you have a true axanthic in there.

But I will be glad to snap its neck for you anyway
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>I don't think you have a true axanthic in there.

Let me post some sibling pics and then you can decide by the photos.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

**If a Hypermel produces an offspring (lavender or normal) with white bands is that axanthic?**

Absolutely not.

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

That is exactly what I said in my earlier thread below a few days ago. The gene itself MUST be proven-out by producing "ghost-type" offspring FIRST (hypo x axanthic). Nobody can tell by simply looking at them and distinguish if they are normally colored black and white variants or truly "axanthic" unless offspring from these prove it to be the case.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>That is exactly what I said in my earlier thread below a few days ago. The gene itself MUST be proven-out by producing "ghost-type" offspring FIRST (hypo x axanthic). Nobody can tell by simply looking at them and distinguish if they are normally colored black and white variants or truly "axanthic" unless offspring from these prove it to be the case.
>>
>>

And that is why I stated (to Rainer) sarcastically that they cannot be deciphered from a picture........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

And that is why I stated (to Rainer) sarcastically that they cannot be deciphered from a picture........

and i kinda respectfully disagree.

I have been looking at the axanthic trait in the Florida kings for 20 years from all the babies i produced. The Cal king axanthics i posted are the same deal.

Another thing that makes me think this. A lot of these snakes and traits originated from a single spp of snakes. Even though the scientists say it is impossble because it is a billion truillion x's unlikely. and the geographic locations are 3000 miles apart. I have seen otherwise.

See there is a lot to learn from cross breeding hybrods. if some of you experimented with hybrids. You would have learned this.
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www.Bluerosy.com

have you learned from breeding hybrods exactly? How did you come to that conclusion? Did the snakes tell you that? Lol!
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

and i kinda respectfully agree.

Other axanthic snakes in the hobby have absolutely nothing to do with the price of tea in China(these particular snakes).

Breeding "Hybrods" don't have anything to do with an animal being axanthic or not either...

Rainer,.....I can distinguish a hybino Honduran from an amel by simply looking too!..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

You guys just don't get it. What i am saying is these types of traits line up accross sub spp lines. Most are allelic. So if you have a blue black eyed axanthic in Cal kings, it is very likely allelic with the Florida king. Just 3000 miles apart.

What you learn from breeding hybrids is thoe traits also cross species lines. So there are not that many recessive traits as you seem to think.

Chances are very very high. If it looks like it. That what it probably is and the axanthic cal kings look just like the axanthic in Floridana.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Ok, I agree that could be a axanthic Cal King. However, I disagree with your hybrids theories. If you breed a albino corn snake to a albino call king do you get all albinos? If you breed a albino fl king to a albino cal king wait never mind that one you might. What about if you breed you friends axanthic cal kings(not jlassiters) to one of your axanthic fl kings, what then? If they were the same then you should produce all visuals right? I have no experience with working with hybrids so please explain.
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

I have bred lots of recessive traits from animals that would never meet in the wild. matter of fact they are hundreds and sometimes THOUSANDS of miles apart. According to genticists that is nearly impossible since these genes would be a trillion to one (or some huge number like that) for two different species to have the same recessive traits. Well guess what. if they are far apart and they do line up. OR they are different species or sub species like a milksnakes to a kingsnake or a ratsnake to a cornsnake etc. What does that tells us? It seems to me that these snakes are much closly related than we think. That they either fequently hybdrizie if they are in close proximity or they all came from a single ancestoral snake. Which is it? We need to know.

As far as what hybrids share recessive traits I'd rather not share because the forum posters here would just take it and shove that right back in my arse. So sorry. No soup for you, says the soup nazi!
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www.Bluerosy.com

What does making hybrids teach you about that? You think all snakes came from one snake. Ok, what about all the other plants and animals on the planet? Is it possible? Maybe, but what are you doing to prove anything? You only make it harder for people to know what is going on by mixing everything up. To me it seems like that hurts the hobby more than anything. You justify it but what are you really trying to figure out? Why do you go through all the trouble(paragraph after paragraph) of making sure everyone thinks that all your snakes are "pure" brooks in your classified ads? Why bother? Tell people the truth, it's all the same sh!t and they all come from the same snake. Why don't you do that? Why are you a "purist" in your ads but on here it's dividing and stupid and holding the hobby back. That's such a weird thing that you do. By the way thanks for throwing the fishing idea out today. That was fun!
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

Nothing new here. One snake species is closely related to another snake species. Really? Hold the presses. That closely related and even not so closely related species carry the same genes is nothing new. The mitochodrial proteins for the electron transport chain in humans are not that different from those in bacteria. Conservation of key genes coding for key processes is common across the animal and plant kingdoms. Fine structure of the genes can be different or similar depending on how closely related the species are, but the genes/loci are frequently the same. This in no way has any relevance though to whether a particular axanthic mutation is the same or different in 2 subspecies of getula. Of course these two subspecies carry the same genes/loci that control color. I would expect that the genetics for color are similar for most if not all snakes. This says nothing about mutations though and mutations tell you nothing about the similarity of the genetics controlling color in different species, unless you first prove that the mutation is the same in both cases. For the vast majority of mutations in herpetoculture we know little to nothing about what is really happening in the snake so cross species/subspecies comparisons are worthless.

In this case I agree with Kerby and others, a pic of a potential axanthic provides little to nothing in the way of evidence of genetics or whether there is even a mutation present.
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Rick Staub

That was very informative.
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

This is what the forums are about: Learning.

Thank you for your informative post!!
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Genesis 1:1

I don't know where to argument is after the cleaning. So let's start at the beginning. What does breeding hybrids teach you?
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

What does it matter? As I remember stating a while back, A. discussion of hybrids is in fact allowed on this forum as long as both parents are kingsnakes. Now let's stop beating the dead horse.

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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
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That's a neat looking snake, John. I can't tell from my phone what hypermelanistic gene that is. Does it have a blak belly?
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>>That's a neat looking snake, John. I can't tell from my phone what hypermelanistic gene that is. Does it have a blak belly?
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Yes....A Solid black belly.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

If its a solid black belly it must be from the recessive hypermelanistic trait, there is one that's co dom but that one doesn't have a solid black belly. What I find odd is that both parents were hypermelanistic and double het, it seems like ever baby should have expressed hypermelanism also. That's what normally happens.
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>>If its a solid black belly it must be from the recessive hypermelanistic trait, there is one that's co dom but that one doesn't have a solid black belly. What I find odd is that both parents were hypermelanistic and double het, it seems like ever baby should have expressed hypermelanism also. That's what normally happens.
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You are right....
I am working on getting the adults in my possession......
Then I can share more info.....

I don't know what's going on with them....I just picked them up as advertised and wanted a cool Calking project since I haven't worked with them for a decade or so.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Heck, who cares that's one nic Cal King....Congrats! So you decided to try and get the parents then? I need to get busy with a good photo shoot, now that I am all done catching up.
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Jimmy Tintle

>>Heck, who cares that's one nic Cal King....Congrats! So you decided to try and get the parents then? I need to get busy with a good photo shoot, now that I am all done catching up.
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>>Jimmy Tintle

Man it was easy to get all these guys riled up over a hypermel king possible het lavender.....there's no axanthic in her at all................lmao!!!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...