Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, I recently went to the Daytona Expo in hopes of finding myself a baby ball python to call my little buddy. I have a normal at home who is a bit bigger (100 grams) and we love him so this is a treat for me!

I ended up picking up a good deal from the Reptile Addicts/Kolby Reptiles stand. A very nice high white Piebald, who I now like to call Odd-Ball. It has been about 6 days since I purchased him. He weighs 52 grams, and from what I confirmed with the breeder was he hatched on Friday Aug the 12th and had eaten 3 Live hoppers before I purchased him (Saturday august the 20th, 8 day's old).

It could be worrying me but it just seems a bit suspicious for him to eat so many times. I was told feeding days were on tuesday so I went ahead and thawed up a hopper and heated it up a bit on both sides with a heat lamp (Like I usually do). When I tonged it up and started to lure him I put it around him but very close to his face when he looked ready, he instantly knew it was something to strike at (He doesn't hiss/strike at me at all). I tried to get it closer to him so he had minimal strike range, I didn't want to "discourage" the baby ball. However I got him to strike numerous times with the result being he hits the mouse, but does NOT bite down or constrict at all, just strikes.

I'll post pictures, he doesn't look thin and I leave plenty of water to hydrate him. He is in an 18x18x18 exo terra with a Zoo-Med heat pad, no heat lamps just a uvb bulb some hours of the day. Here are some pictures.

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He is probably just adapting to a new environment. Give him a week and try again. A week without food won't hurt him, especially if he's eaten 3 time since August 12th.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

www.youtube.com/reptilenexus

I'd try live a few more times before i tried f/t.

If he hatched on Aug 12th it is almost impossible that he would have eaten 3 times by the 20th.

Either way, he is probably not going to take FT food yet. You are more than likely going to have to give him small live mice for the first few feedings until he gets more well established.
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John Vandegrift

He is a very young Ball. The feeding record you have along with hatch date doesn't make sense to me.

He was most likely raised in a shoebox(L 13" x W 7" x H 4" or dimensions similar. The cage you have him in is quite large for this guy. Baby ball pythons like smaller enclosures to feel secure.

If he has been eating live I would continue this until he eats regularly and then convert to FT.

I recommend a smaller enclosure for best results and offer live every 3-4 days.

And above all, you should contact the breeder to help you!
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

I agree w/Alan! You're fixing him up how YOU want him to be fixed up and not how HE wants to be fixed up!

First off, Congrats on a great looking pied!! You really should keep baby balls in smaller containers. They get stressed way too easy in bigger enclosures, LOL! Now he may not seem too stressed, but it may be enough. Also as much as I hate feeding live animals(snakes safety), Most times with baby balls you have no choice but to offer live for the first 3....5....maybe 15 times before they can switch over. Give him a week, maybe two to adjust, throw a light weight hide box in for added security, and then try a live hopper. Best of luck with the little guy!!

Agree with all posts. To sum it up:

NOT possible that he has eaten 3 meals in 8 days from being hatched. Most hatchlings go through a shed after a week and then don't eat for another week after that...

Provide him a hide or smaller enclosure.

Wait atlese a few days before feeding him.

Offer him a live prey item.

Keep in touch with the breeder you bought him from.

Good luck!
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Reid Begnoche
http://www.tallgrassreptiles.com
tallgrassreptiles@gmail.com

Peas Poridge cold...
pieds and other balls don't eat till 8 days old....

.....my balls eat after shed
shed after 10 days , after hatching...
do the math?......

.....
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........JY

You have that right JY!
Some will eat but most must shed first.

You crack me up with your replies.

You. Might. Be. Insane.

Might be.
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

He's probably the most SANE person I've ever met. No joke.

don't listen to him Robyn...he met me in the padded room with his father...LOL...

.....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahaha
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........JY

Ya know, I've meet a lot of really nice people between those padded walls......

Some of which still reside in my head.....

Although none are as entertaining as you!!! LOL

LOL, JYohe has got to be the best poster on this board. I have to read his replies it usually makes me chuckle. Gives good advise too.
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Vince Pramuk []__[]

He knows a lot and never sell him short. And above all he is honest man too.

Thanks You Both....

.......bows slightly....

(bad enough back )...

....pieds are tough...I am setting on a pair right now that wouldn't eat.....shoved a pink for kick start....shoved a rat tail piece for the heck of it...and the male actually ate a rat fuzzy yesterday...yea....now if the female would eat....I got them all sold.....2.4 pieds....1.3 ate right away and 1.1 didn't.......
....
.
..
pieds.....gotta love them gerbil eating things....

....(mine not the for sale stuff...adults )...
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........JY

LOL, I read his every post as well, he's the only one.

Plus...I can practice...

my pauses,

and spaces.
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

you wrote snot and call me crazy?...Hmmmm'

I am actually not insane...just supressed.....I have no control over the crap in my life so I just let my brain do the thinkins....

if I actually took control....I would have 0 snakes.....
they frown upon that on death row....I'd bet on it....

...HA!!!........

........we are all bored little pissyants stuck in this dumb country called "free America"....and pay out our rears for it everyday....

....now I am fading to the left again...

anyways./....

OP...could be date mistakes...could be memory on you or their part.....either way...EVEN IF it ate 100 times..it's a ball ..you move it it may stop eating ....saw it too many times...

good luck.......
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........JY

Thank you for all the responses!

I will most likely try feeding him again this upcoming tuesday, except this time with a live instead of F/T hopper mouse.

I was more worried about the fact that he wasn't gripping and constricting, even though he knew it was food.

Thoughts on Honestly moving him into a 10 gallon? I know it has to be smaller for him, but it just feels better to give him the little cube. He crawl's up and sit's on the top of the structure sometimes. He's picked his 3 spots, I guess I'll just have to wait and try again.

Would it be to finicky to ask the breeder for a copy of/dates on a feed and shed card? I figure a lot of breeders would do this but not all.

Yeah i would just go with the ten gallon for now.

Best way to get those little ones to eat is to put a mouse crawler in with them under their hide(,or even in a small paper bag works too.)...It isnt big enough to hurt them,and they get annoyed by it messing with their space,and bam!

Right now that thing might be thinking.."Look at this giant teasing me that he has a mouse and i don't..He's so mean!"

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Charles Glaspie
picasaweb.google.com/coldthumb

That is actually a defensive behavior, he was afraid of the mouse being dangled in his face, that's why he was striking at it, to make the scarey thing go away. Had he recognized it as food, he wouldn't have just struck at it w/out grabbing and coiling it. Everyone else gave great advise regarding enclosusre and feeding but I didn't see that concern of yours addressed yet. He's a cute little bugger. Congrats and good luck!

.
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Slytherin Serpents

Have you been hugged by your snake today?

Ball Pythons
1.1 Het Caramels (Edward & Bella)
0.1 Normal 66% ph Caramel (Rosalie)
0.1 Caramel (Bellatrix)
1.0 Honey Bee (Aragog)
0.1 Hypo Pastel (Nagini)
0.1 Spider 66% ph Hypo(Nymphadora)
1.1 Mojaves (Lucius & Renesme)
1.1 Pastel Lessers (Jacob & Narcissa)
0.1 Pinstripe (Arwen)
1.0 Pewter (Salazar)
0.1 Bumble Bee (Alice)
0.1 Lemonblast (Luna)
1.0 Bell Pastel (Jasper)
0.1 African Dinker (Esme)
0.1 Normal (Madame Olympe Maxime)
0.1 Het Pied
1.1 Pastel Dinkers (Snape & Xiomara)
0.2 Ghana Dinker Babies

Corns
1.1 Normals het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo (Romeo & Juliet)
1.0 Blizzard het Diffused (Tumnus)
1.0 Blizzard poss het Anery, Hypo, Diffused (Cotton)
0.1 Anery Lavender het Amel (Lucy)
0.1 Plasma poss het Hypo (Victoria)
1.0 Plasma poss het Albino
1.0 Hypo Plasma
0.1 Opal (Jewel)
1.1 Amel Motleys (Harry & Ginny)
0.1 Lavender Motley poss het diffused
1.0 Lavender Pinstripe Motley het Amel
0.1 Fire poss het Anery, Charcoal, Hypo (LeeLoo)
0.1 Normal het Albino, Lavender, Anery, Charcoal, poss het Diffused
1.0 Albino het Lavender, Anery, Charcoal, poss het Diffused
1.1 Sunkissed poss het Plasma (Arthur & Molly)
0.1 Dilute Blue Motley
1.0 Pastel Motley

Kings
0.1 Thayeri - Leonis (Sidney)
1.0 Thayeri - MSP
1.1 Red Hypo Brooks

The math doesnt add up on age and feeding. PERIOD! No question is out of line for ANY CUSTOMER! This is the bottom line!
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

I personally think many things could have played a part in his not biting and constricting. Poss. stress, (poss.)not eating before, not eating ft before, etc. Also, just me personally, I think a 10 gallon is too big for a baby ball. I would prefer a 5 gallon, or a small rubbermaid type shoebox big enough for a plastic hide(which could easily be made out of various things), a waterbowl, and enough space it can get around....but they don't need a ton of space to crawl around.... at least not at this point, as your biggest concern should be making sure he gets eating. One trick I've done with small python(sometimes balls), and colubrids that refuse to eat in the enclosure, is to stick them in a small deli cup and throw the hopper in there with them. Good luck with the little guy, as yeah you've probably been lied to, but that doesn't mean that he won't do well for ya.....

Here is what I would do whether this animal ever ate (which is doubtfull) or not.

I would switch him to a 6 quarts tub with aspen bedding and leave him alone for a week and than offer a LIVE hopper mouse. NO Handling during that time unless necessary and until the animal eats with consistency.

The key with very young hatchling especially those that have not be started is security and stimulation when it comes to their first few meals.

Security will not be provided in an over-sized enclosure which is inadequate for a BP to start with.

Feeding F/T will like not work either, right now the priority is not to switch the animal but to get him to eat once he is well established which can take 3 to 5 consecutive successful meals.

Again proper husbandry is the key do not switch him to a 10 gallons tank switch him to a 6 quarts tub.

Good luck.

to suggest that the breeder you got him from is anything but honest, and I'm quite surprised that no one else mentioned it, but a 54 gram baby sounds like it has eaten zero times. When my babies have had three meals in them and are ready to go to their new owners, they're weighing upwards of 80-90g, not 54g..
Something's fishy....
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www.strictlyballs.ca

I agree. Sounds like at 8 days old it had just shed that morning or the day before and they were trying to get a quick sale from a baby that just hatched and shed.
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Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

I have to agree. This sale should have started out w/the words "Once Upon A Time". There is no way your little guy has eaten. His weight alone is a testament to that. As for the striking out at the f/t, that is a defensive move...He's afraid! You relly need to consider putting him in a shoe box container w/heat, a hide box & a little water dish. I can't imagine he's even had his first shed yet & if that's the case, he will not eat till that happens anyway.

We brought home a hatchling from Dayton too. He hatched on Monday the 15th & is just now starting to cap for his 1st shed. Never eaten & his weight when we brought him home was only 68g. A day or so after he sheds, he'll be offered small hopper mice (live) & he'll stay on those till he gets more size to warrant larger hoppers & so on till he's ready for rat pup crawler. From that point, I rotate between hoppers & crawlers so he will be more willing to eat what I give him & not get in a rut w/his food.

Hope this helps. Love your little guy he's very pretty!

I didnt read through all the replies so i dont know if its been said but... Isnt Reptile Addicts owned by Fred Kick? If thats the case check the BOI on that other site.
thats all
Mark

The hatch date could be a few different dates....the day it pipped, the day it came half way out of the egg, the day it completly came out of the egg, the day they found it out of the egg, but anyhow you look at it, at 8 days old there is no way anyone would have fed that snake 3 meals. A Ball hatches, comes completly out of the egg and is laying on the vermiculite, that is day one. On or about day 10 the baby is going to shed. I do not know anyone who feeds their babies before they shed unless it is a small, SMALL baby they think is going to die if it does not get food, one that maybe had a yolk issue, or, a baby that does not shed its first shed like normal...and sheds on day 25. I have had that happen. So, you babies day one was August 12th, and it probably shed on August 22nd. So, if you got it on August 20th, and it was already shed, I bet the hatch date is incorrect or the baby has not fed yet. My Pieds looked exactly like that the day they shed, and had not taken a meal yet.

Just from the visuals you can tell that snake hasn't eaten three times. I think you have been okey doked. That is not ok. It doesn't matter if it is pretty, if you get it eating, or "it was a great price". Those are all nonsense excuses. Or should be.

Integrity is very important. Or should be.

Best of luck with your animal. You should ask for the truth. And you shouldn't spend money with folks that okey doke you.
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

You have mentioned two different names. The dates don't line up as others have said. If they were trying to fool you, it looks like they would have used numbers that added up. The snake does need a small box to be comfortable, not the cage you have pictured. Moving to f/t is sometimes a challenge, it is not unusual for him not to constrict the f/t mouse if he isn't going to eat it.

nice pickup - keep a weight on him - give him time to settle in - if he frops 10 or 12 grams you could be concerned then but not until - he looks fine - i switch mine to f/t right away as i have no close supplier of live - thaw a hopper in a sealed sandwhich bag - don't let the smell get away - dont touch it with your hands - then about 1 hour before dark( dark being typically when they come out to explore a anew enclosure) heat the hopper in the bag as hot as you can get it still sealed in the bag with sink water - then offer it with you not in his view - try to simulate a mouse's natural movement - he feeds off of smell and heat - not sight - he'll eat - if not wait a week - try again - he'll eat - also avoid messing withhim - it can take several weeks for him to acclimate to his new home - if i have given bad advice - i'm sure someone will disagree and thats ok - warm side temps - 90-92 at uth - balls dont burrow much - perfect would be 88 but since we cant get perfect 82 - 90 is desirable

Take it out of big tank put it in a shoe box size tub with hide and water bowl (and heat) - leave for a few days - feed it live hopper or rat crawler - when it's feeding regularly move it to bigger digs.

Contact the breeder and get clarification on all the above mentioned inconsistencies.

Good luck.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

nihil facimus sed id bene facimus

Thank you ALL so much for the feedback I appreciate it tons.

Although a rubbermaid would probably be more ideal then a 10 gallon, my girlfriend won't deal with it. I've put it out on the table but the 10 gallon is probably what's going to happen.

I've thrown in Zoo-med snake aspen since then and I plan to cover the sides and back of the tank glass with electrical/duck tape for the security factor. I also plan to give Mr. Kick another call and straighten this out because this guy hasn't shed with me and honesty should be the ONLY policy.

Need to get this guy feeling a bit more safe. Is a live hopper going to be big enough to do damage? This guy is really tiny at 52 grams to me I'm pretty worried about him! But if a rubbermaid with holes and a live hopper for a bit will get it done I'm VERY willing.

I really appreciate all the responses and JY making it a bit funny!

I recommend paper towels as substrate until he sheds. Offer a live crawler/hopper a few days after he has settled in. If he doesn't eat with in 20 min. Remove the prey and try again in 3 days or so. Offer the prey at night for best results and leave him undisturbed for the full 20 minutes.

We all wish you the best of luck!
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

GOOD NEWS.

So I moved my little guy into a 10 gallon, and I tried to feed today with SUCCESS!

I put him in the bag with the hopper and when I checked about 15 minutes later it was life-less on the bottom of the bag and he had just started to swallow it. I wonder if he just constricted it and missed, it didn't seem like he actually attached at all.

Doesn't matter how it died, it went for a better purpose and YAYAY my little guy ate. This was my first time feeding him since I bought him and I got super anxious my new baby wasn't eating. ^.^

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH for the replies!

I also spoke with Fred Kick again and he thought I had taken a female instead of a male.

The birth date was August the 1st, not the 12th. So eating 3 mice and shedding in 19 days sounds logical to me! Everything seems to be working out for the best at the moment.

First off, You have a very nice looking Pied there. I'm sure he will start eating and do very well for you. You appear to be somewhat new to owning/ caring for ball pythons. I will mention a few things that have not been said yet; Once ball Pythons hatch, they go through a post hatch shed which typically takes 5-7 days from their actual hatch date. Baby balls usually never eat prior to this post hatch shed process and I do not know of any breeders that would even attempt to offer food untill after their 1st shed process has occured. This would mean that your snake probably had his first shed on the 18th or 19th if he hatched on 12th. Most vendors set up for the show on the 19th (Friday). I would bet my collection that your snake did not take three meals prior to the 20th. Most babies don't start feeding till around 10 days after their hatch date, some may take later. (Keep in mind, they have just absorbed their egg yolk just prior to coming out of the egg so they have plenty of food to last them a month or two to get started.) Most babies are offered food every 3-4 days after they start eating. You can do the math! I would contact the breeder and talk to them about this first. I would also recommend starting your little guy off in a much smaller encloser like a shoe box. Baby balls do not like glass tanks with a bunch of light. They prefer a small enclosure where they have a dark area where they can feel secure. It is important that you get your pied started off right and feeding on a regular 4-5 day schedule prior to handeling him or moving him to a larger enclosure. Hope this helps and good luck!