Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been looking for some natural history information about the Coastal Plain's Milk Snake, but have not had much luck. Recently someone posted some pictures of a snake that looks a lot like a Coastal they caught in Bedford Co. Virginia. But, I can't find any records of coastals in Bedford county, which is the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountians in South West VA.

Based on the information I have found, many people contest that the Coastal is an intergrade between an Eastern Milk and a Scarlet King but some people think it is a color variation of the Eastern Milk. Has any research been done to disprove one or both of these hypothesis? Has anyone ever bred the two (Eastern x Scarlet King) in captivity to see if the offspring look remotely like the Coastal Plain's Milksnake? I tried this question on the hybrid forum without any help...

Many Thanks,
Tom

Here is a link to Tony Dongara's article.
Coastal Plains Milk info.

Thanks for the plug Keith but the paper is no longer at that location and I've yet to put up a new site though it is in the works. Anyway in direct answer to the original question my paper, though it did serve to renew debate, was likely well off the mark as genetic sequencing is beginning to indicate. For this reason I've elected to champion a new theory. In an older volume of Ecology (Vol. 38 No. 2) Philip Smith published the paper:
AN ANALYSIS OF POST WISCONSIN BIOGRAPHY OF THE PRAIRIE PENINSULA REGION BASED ON DISTRIBUTIONAL PHENOMINA AMONG TERRESTRIAL VERTEBRATE POPULATIONS
Basically what this paper leads one to suggest is that after the last glacial phase a warm and dry period arose that allowed grassland ecosystems to migrate eastward. Distribution maps show this "prairie peninsula" extending into New Jersey and southern Maryland, the very heart of temporalis's range. Along with this migration came milksnakes. Once cooler and more moist conditions returned the grasslands retreated some of the animals survived. In the case of coastal plains milk snakes they primarily survived in areas with poor well drained that maintained sparse vegetation and climatic conditions more similar to those or the original "prairie peninsula" than current and prevailing conditions. Genetic drift during the initial invasion of western milks differentiated them from more western populations and further isolation after the retreat of grasslands is likely the cause of "locality" based variation. That these invading milksnakes have integrated with easterns to the north of their range is pretty certain however it remains questionable as to whether there has been gene flow between them and the scarlet king snake. If one were to rely solely on the phenotype of animals from SE Virginia and NE North Carolina you would conclude that integration had occurred however other mechanisms are capable of producing similar results so this later questions awaits a definitive answer from the gene chasers.

In any case coastals are distinctive animals. In my humble opinion not only do they have a fascinating natural history but they are much over looked in the hobby. Their small size and calm (for a milk snake) nature make them excellent subjects for captive maintenance. There are currently at least two color morphs available and one pattern morph that I know of. There are also several regional types of interest to locality breeders though some of these lines are highly inbred at this time. The only drawback to coastals is their supposed difficulty in getting them started. Though they are not as easy as say corn snakes they are nowhere near as difficult to get started as many species I work with. Once started they can and do grow quickly and I've regularly gotten them reach sexual maturity, breed and lay eggs at 18 months of age!

Tony,

Thanks for the response. I certainly agree that the Coastal has an intriguing natural history. I also think it is one of the most beautiful milk snakes that is over looked in the hobby and science. There is a wealth of information to learn about these beautiful animals. Are there populations stable? Is there geographic distribution increasing? Decreasing?

Like many of the pine barren’s and coastal plain’s fauna, their numbers could be decreasing. After driving the Eastern Shore of MD and seeing the incredible amount of new construction – mostly McMansions and strip malls, it would be a wonder if their population and geographic distribution is not declining.

TA

nm

So is the rest of the site! Boy that REALLY needs updating.

The puzzle that you bring up is the subject of research by a number of people including myself. You are absolutely right that no Coastal Plains Milks have been reported from that far west in VA. That animal definately is worth further investigation.

To get at whether temporalis is the result of hybridization/intergradation between L. t. triangulum and L. t. elapsoides, we are looking at DNA sequences to see if temporalis have sequences from both of the purported progenetors.

Several people that I am aware of have done the cross between the two putative progenetors of temporalis. The photos that I have seen from those crosses do look much like temporalis. That doesn't mean that temporalis came about that way. Look at the red milk (L. t. syspila). Many temporalis look like syspila. Coincidence? Hard to say.

The work is being done and hopefully an answer will be published before long.

George Harper, Ph.D. candidate
UNC - Chapel Hill

George,
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I am glad some people are taking the time and effort to compare the DNA sequences the coastals to that of the eastern and scarlet king. It sounds like soon there may be a better and decisive answer to my original question sooner than later.

BTW, I, by default only, am a huge Heels fan. My mother, father, sister, and brother are all UNC grads along with dozens of other family members. I was nearly disowned when I went to Va Tech… but UNC did not have an Engineering program, and if I had gone to State, I would have certainly been disowned if not murdered. I look forward to coming down there next year to watch the Hokies destroy you in football, and likewise, get absolutely crushed in basketball…. Next season should be interesting to say the least.

Take care,
Tom