Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well all right... sub tropical storm Irene by the time it arrived here in Maine... but enough to have lost power for 5 days... glad it was summer with temps in the mid 70's.

Cole wasn't here, had nothing to do with Irene or the power loss at all...at least as far as I know that is... just wanted to get his attention

Cole, the lump/bump on that l.t.t is hard... the more I watch it the lower my expectations for survival become... right behind that bump it's body is slightly thinner/narrower... all forward movement is through the "pre" bump section of the body, the rest of the body is all but dragged along, the belly is just as likely to be upwards as not... it looks fine, muscle tone seems good, just very limited control of it... I wonder if it could even push food down to it's stomach?

Gerry

Hey Gerry,

I just took a look at that LTT from your picture and I've got a pretty good idea of what's going on, though it's not a pretty prognosis. What I'm seeing, and what you're describing as paralysis caudal to the lesion, is consistent with a traumatic injury to the spine. The "thinning and narrowing" of the body is acute muscle atrophy, which invariably occurs when skeletal muscle loses innervation (in this case from either a disk or fractured spinal process that is compressing the spinal cord). That injury hadn't occurred long before you found her. Is there a chance you rolled the rock on her LOL? Swallowing is a vagal (parasympathetic) process independent of the spinal cord so she should be physiologically capable of prehending dead prey and swallowing, but her (unlikely) survival will require a lot of extra care. Snakes with these injuries usually deteriorate pretty quickly due to stress and physiologic dysfunction, and those that survive (usually those with limited, very caudal paralysis) still often present with burns, bite wounds, etc since they're incapable of feeling or responding to pain in those regions of the body.

I don't mean to sound like a downer nor do I mean to discourage you from trying to salvage a great looking snake, but I'm in a position to offer a realistic perspective on the situation. If she continues to deteriorate, my personal opinion would be to have her euthanized humanely and don't beat yourself up over it. She's struggling against great odds right now.

Best of luck,

Brad
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http://www.waffahousereptiles.com

Hi Brad... thanks for all the info... there is little chance I rolled the rock onto onto her, it's relatively flat and she was located near the edge I was lifting up rather than at the edge still in contact with the ground... that rock has been a popular hang out for ring necks and brown snakes over the years. If there were an even remote chance I had been the cause of it I never would have mentioned it in here in the forum, would have felt far too guilty. Going to feel guilty if she dies while I'm keeping her even though I know she'd never make it out on her own... I just now measured her... 9" long and only 2 3/4" of body that she does control.

Gerry

Gerry, you did not have to cause that injury (that is what I thought it was when you first posted), it could have been caused by a number of things. Maybe a hawk or other bird had grabbed it and dropped it or something. Probably never know.

Joe

Again... in this particular case I'm certain I did not cause this injury... as I said above she was located along the edge of the rock that was going up not at the edge still in contact with the ground.

I did once injure a snake while out in the field, caused a small puncture wound at the caudal area... felt so bad that I went back to the same location for the next two weekends just to check how it was doing... all turned out well for the snake and I learned to exercise a little more caution while searching in that type of habitat.

Enough said on it. I'm still debating the decision to keep it. Even though I'm certain she won't survive on her own there is no guarantee she will fair any better with me. Trying to alter the natural course of events has never sat well with me... sh!t happens every day out in the wild.

Gerry

Gerry, I was stating I thought it was an injury when you first made the post and was actually saying you did not cause it. I suck at writing and I guess it reads as if I stated I thought you caused it. Not what I was saying. Anyway, I agree that if it is hard then scar tissue has probably formed and the injury happened a while ago. give her a shot and like mentioned, if she continues to suffer---put her down.

Joe

Joe... I didn't take your comments, or Brads, as an accusation of any sort. Both of you simply pointed out a very real possibility as to how the animal may have been injured. I am not so sensitive as to be offended by someone speaking the truth.

If in turn my reply seemed an attempt to defend myself from your supposed “accusation” I offer my apologies. I was simply pointing out that although you present a very plausible scenario that (in this case), the probability of my having caused the injury is very remote. Believe me, if I thought for a moment I had caused the injury I wouldn’t come to this forum and say “Hey guys and gals, I think I pretty much condemned this little beauty to death, want to you think I should do”?

Your speaking/writing skills are just fine, don’t ever worry about offending me.

Gerry

P.S. If you were here to see I was laughing , had a mischievous look about me and knew my comment was in jest I would say “Don’t ever worry about offending me, better men than you have tried.

Joe... I didn't take your comments, or Brads, as an accusation of any sort. Both of you simply pointed out a very real possibility as to how the animal may have been injured. I am not so sensitive as to be offended by someone speaking the truth.

If in turn my reply seemed an attempt to defend myself from your supposed “accusation” I offer my apologies. I was simply pointing out that although you present a very plausible scenario that (in this case), the probability of my having caused the injury is very remote. Believe me, if I thought for a moment I had caused the injury I wouldn’t come to this forum and say “Hey guys and gals, I think I pretty much condemned this little beauty to death, want to you think I should do”?

Your speaking/writing skills are just fine, don’t ever worry about offending me.

Gerry

P.S. If you were here to see I was laughing , had a mischievous look about me and knew my comment was in jest I would say “Don’t ever worry about offending me, better men than you have tried.

hmmm, my reply was there, then it wasn't, now it's twice... sorry.

Gerry,

I was out of town camping all weekend. Sorry for the slow response.

I agree with the others - it looks like a fractured spine to me. However, the fact that it's "hard" makes it sound like it has healed. Is there any feeling to the rear portion of the animal's body? For example, does it tense if you pinch the tail tip?

Here's a similar experience I had:

I had a Pale Milk for nearly two years that was dug out of a road side with an excavator during utility construction. The animal had a severe spinal injury that left it unable to move the rear 2/3 of its body. The animal fed voluntarily approximately 2 weeks after capture, and continued to do so for the next year and a half. The injury healed into a crooked, calcified spot which left it goofy looking, but the snake did regain partial control over the post-injury portion of its body. In spite of its willingness to feed and apparent "zest" for life, the critter slowly faded during its final six months and finally died.

Anyway, I hope this helps. I'd say that if you're interested in working with the animal, give it a shot. If the animal seems to be fading after some attempts at feeding, euthanize it.
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-Cole

Cole, no worries about the reply, I know people have lives beyond the forum.

In order to answer your question I just took her out... although forward locomotion is still done with the first third of her body the lower two thirds now seems to be under some control, she's forming loops with it! No matter how many times I move her she's now keeping the ventral scales down. And she just ate a rat's tail!!!... I'm not going to watch any more in case there's a regurge... and I'm not, I am NOT going to name her.

Gerry