Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click here to visit Classifieds
Click for ZooMed
Click here for Dragon Serpents

cham facts

iso Oct 01, 2003 05:01 PM

I understand the swaying now...and the male Jackson bit is just nuts(not to mention stupid...)

The chameleon has no external ear drum.

Using their eyes independently, chameleons will sit completely still and wait for prey to cross their path. When spotted, both eyes will converge and it will sway to improve its vision and confirm the distance from the prey.

Prey is captured by projecting the tongue, which has a fleshy tip covered with sticky saliva. Prey is then brought back into the mouth, chewed and swallowed. The tongue, one and a half times the lizard's length, can reach full length in a sixteenth of a second.

(jacksons)
Aggressive behaviour is usually only evident between males. Male Jackson's chameleons are very territorial when defending their 'perch' or female. The horns are weapons, not purely ornamental. However, most fights between males are through staring competitions until one becomes so stressed that it dies.

Replies (14)

Charm_Paradise Oct 01, 2003 08:49 PM

Adam-

Just one note, about the tongue. Yes there is some saliva on the tongue, but the tongues muscles play a bigger role in catching food. Have you ever tried hand feeding your chameleon, and it missed the food item and got your hand/finger because the food item moved. Then feel where the tongue hit you, you will notice there is no moisture and it doesn't feel wet. There was an article in the last issue of the e-zine on this topic. CLICK HERE. Hope this helps!
-----
John W. Lucas

CHAMELEON PARADISE

CHAMELEONS ONLINE E-ZINE AUTHOR

Feeding Baby Chameleons
Caging Baby Chameleons

F. pardalis

Ambilobe Locale
Nosy Be Locale
Sambava Locale

Rhampholeon uluguruensis

Eggs Incubating-

F. pardalis - Ambilobe Locale

got SILKWORMS!


Photo © Chameleon Paradise 2003

captaincham Oct 01, 2003 09:04 PM

john ive noticed that every time someone says something that you can find the smallest problem with you point it out. why do you do that? it's a forum to share opinions in and not to prove whos best. speaking of which, why are you so obsessed with yourself? big deal if you wrote an article in an e-zine here so now what youre mister chameleon expert? how come you wrote an article about baby housing and baby food if youve never had an egg hatch in your life? you just got your first eggs what 2 months ago? You must be an expert now. what kind of experience do you have besides what youve read in books? maybe whoever picked you to do that article was misled by your seriousness and your every effort to make things correct. also, who told you that your ambilobe was an ambilobe? they should be shot. looks like a red bar ambanja to me or sambava at best. i feel bad for whoever you talk into buying those from you. the female is probably nosy be. why do you keep refering people to articles in the e-zine? are they all your buddies now? they must be impressed with your 6 panthers. if all it took was 6 panthers and 2 clutches of eggs we would have all written articles by now. and take all that stupid stuff off the bottom of your responses.... e-zine author? could you be a little cockier? eggs incubating? you're a little too excited. and all the colorful writing has to go. peace out.

ALt3R_3GO Oct 01, 2003 10:38 PM

Captain, I really couldn't have said all the things you've said better! You've said all the things that i have been thinking for months now! I really don't mean to directly attack John, but there is an itch that i have to scratch. John never seems to see anybody's view as legit and it seems that to him, there is only one way, and ONLY ONE WAY, to keep chameleons, and that is John's way. Seriously Jonh, you have belittled too many before on this forum, and i feel that you do not have the authority to do so. There have been so many people with waaay waaayy more expereince than you in this field such as Chirs anderson and Eric adrignola and Morgana of reptayls, but they never have the need patronize and belittle anyone's opinion or or experience. Afterall, everybody has their own experience right?
Frankly speaking, i was very surprise that some people in this forum was actually surprise that you look so young in the picture. From all your posts, i very easily gather that you are definately young, due to the fact that it seems that you are trying your darndest to be gain attention and to be recognize as a chameleon "expert". It was very clear to me that this displayed immature behaviour, and right off the bat i thought you were indeed a young fellow, and indeed, you are. I don't know why the other posters didin't detect what is so sooo evident.
If everbody who read a few books and made a website think they are experts just because of that, i seriously feel sorry for the chameleons and the chameleon comunity as a whole.
And i too think that your "ambilobe" isn't an ambilobe. i would say it is an interesting sambava at best. Captain went a little overboard in saying that they should be shot, but at the same time i understand captain's frustration.
John, a word of advice, respect other people's view, experience and opinion. There are tons of people who have had more experience than you. Don't let the fact that you wrote two articles for an E-zine and the ability to make a website get to your head. I don't say that you should stop posting and helping people out, like you normally do, just respect other people if you want people to respect you.( and i know that is really really important to you)

Peace out!

compasscreek Oct 01, 2003 11:15 PM

someone that is clearly trying to help, AND has helped in the past. i'm surprised someone with as much knowledge as you would be even concerned with what a "nobody" like john has to say. i don't remember you ever offering advise to anyone though.

dennis

trinacliff Oct 02, 2003 07:24 AM

Dennis is right...all I have seen out of John is his desire to be helpful and informative. I took this reply to the original post as his just pointing out something that may not have been totally clear to the person that posted it. What is the harm in that? I do not see the arrogant attitude that you are implying that John has. All I see is him being very friendly and helpful.
That is much better than the experts that don't have the time to help people like us...at least John is trying to help us all along so we can be as knowledgeable as possible down the road. I know that lots of these experts don't even come here because they can't be bothered with people like us. I understand they are busy, but I commend John for consistently being around to answer questions and provide more insight.

As for attacking his Ambilobes, that is just uncalled for...actually, this whole post was uncalled for and should have been off this forum. I won't be surprised if it is removed.

Kristen
-----
0.1 pygmy leaf
1.0 carpet
1.0 jackson

Charm_Paradise Oct 01, 2003 11:29 PM

Hi-

Well I am sorry you feel this way. I have never seen you on this forum before, or you are posting under a different name! You should know your facts before you open your mouth. One of the big problems with chameleon husbandry is rumors. The e-zine articles I refer to from time to time, is to offer more reading on the subject in question. I am not the only one who refers people to e-zine articles, and I have been doing it from day one. The E-zine is edited so no urban myths are allowed to spread and has more accurate info then some of the older books. Opinions are welcomed, you will notice that when questionable info is posted there will be people posting their point of view on the topic. When you post links to offer more reading on the subject you offer more to the forum. I am sorry you feel I am coming off in a negative way, and I am not obsessed with my self. No, in no way did I EVER say I am an expert nor did I suggest that I am. As far as me not hatching eggs goes, once again you should watch what you say, I have worked with Jackson's in the past they do not lay eggs but you get my point. The problem with Jackson's is the females are very good at hiding the fact they are gravid, so planning for the babies is not so easy if you receive gravid females. With eggs you know more about when the eggs are laid and can plan for this. It would make no difference if you hatched eggs or not, in the end you still come out with babies and they have needs that must be met. I can assure you everything I write or post is from first hand experience or is clearly noted. Also you should know that I did not offer, ask, or imply to write for the E-zine nor did I bring up the topics written about. I was contacted and asked by Bill to do so after exchanging emails and what I wrote about were things that I had plans for way before writing the article and things Bill asked me about. I have worked in the wholesale pet industry for years, and managed a shop from top to bottom. I don't feel I need to tell you my whole life story, nor will I. As for my Ambilobe being Ambilobe, they are 100% pure Ambilobe. I am once again sorry if you fell they should be shot, this makes me concerned about your intent to care for chameleons and your knowledge of them. There is no way they are Ambanja or Sambava, a basic knowledge of panther locales would show this. My female Ambilobe is Ambilobe, I do have a Nosy be female and she is clearly labeled Nosy Be, just like the Ambilobe. I would not worry about feeling sorry for anyone who may get a CBB Ambilobe from me, because they certainly will not. The number of clutches has nothing to do with anything, I am not a farm, and focus on quality not quantity. I am not trying to impress anyone, my signature will remain as is. FYI I am not the only one with a signature. If this bothers you then please feel free not to read and or post replies to any of my posts. I change it from time to time, to mix things up. I hope I covered all your questions and insults, you will notice I did not returned the favor.
-----
John W. Lucas

CHAMELEON PARADISE

CHAMELEONS ONLINE E-ZINE AUTHOR

Feeding Baby Chameleons
Caging Baby Chameleons

F. pardalis

Ambilobe Locale
Nosy Be Locale
Sambava Locale

Rhampholeon uluguruensis

Eggs Incubating-

F. pardalis - Ambilobe Locale

got SILKWORMS!


Photo © Chameleon Paradise 2003

eric adrignola Oct 02, 2003 08:29 AM

Scratching an itch, I get it. Soem people will pick apart any itty bitty piece of a post just to, well, say something. sometimes, they correct you when they have no buisness, or try to tell you something because they're self-righetous. however, I have not seen any posts from John like this. I may have missed them, but as far as I can remember, there has not been someone posting comments like that in several months(except this one guy, who thinks we shouldn't have chameleons...but he's never posting much anyway)

Years ago, when I was getting back into the hobby AGAIN, I ignored this site because of people liek that. I couldn't post a bit of speculation, experimentation, or deeply thought out hypothesis wiothout somebody saying "You shouldn't do that" or "you're being cruel, and should be infected with ascaris"--I'm serious.

Recently, people have been much better about this. When Alanvines posted about crossing subspecies of jacksoinii, there was a HUGE discussion, and very little ridicule. In the end, we all got a good discussion on, and I don't think we had many posts removed at all!

What I DON'T get is why someone would say this about John. I don't think he's ever come across as self-righteous. He is very active in his posts, and he seems to do it with the reason of spreading knowledge and NOT for his own evil purposes. He IS very "visible", as in he's got a webpage--a good one--and is very active in the "community". So what? He had the time and money to invest in a page, and to write articles in the ezine? I wish I had more time and money to do the same, I'd do a heck of a job too. You should see some of the scientific papers I've written to get my zoology degree. I simply don't have the time(goes with the money thing, need money, so I work 2 jobs, hence no time)

sooo, in a way, >I< am jealous of John--that he's got such a nice site, and has written those articles--I'd LOVE to do that. But just because he's doing all this is not a good reason to snap at people. Heck, I don't even have time to keep freakin silkworms going for more than one genreation!

When someone is "getting on your nerves", just let them know. It'll keep this forum from sinking to the depths it was in a few years ago.

I think people take additional information as if it were a correction, and get offended. I learned that this is not real communication, it's reading and writing. Different rules apply to verbal and written communication, and some people will read a post, and take it the wrong way.

Years ago, > I < was the "instigator", the one who everybody used to ridicule and chastize for my abhorrent chameleon husbandry and "different" views on things. Part of that was the way I typed. I typed like I talked, and because I was from NJ, I came across as a sarcastic, mean, loud mouthed northern NJ Italian, even though I was just a sarcastic, mean-looking, loud Italian from NJ...

I have learned to remove the sarcasim from written communication, as it just don't work on the internet.

I am pretty mean looing though...people get a kick out of that. They think I am a stupid, steroid using, mean thug--until they hear me say something intelligent--throws the southerners off. they're not expecting someone like me to be smart...

As you can all clearly see, I am at work, bored, and hoppped up on some really strong black coffee. MAn I type so much when I'm bored......

Maybe I should start a column in the E-zine! They probably don't have the server space for one of my articles!

lele Oct 02, 2003 02:11 PM

I know that I have made corrections or pointed out an error or something misunderstood (usually about insects and plants issues not chams) and, as has been said, it is not to show my knowledge or experience it is simply to add info - just as I look forward to others with different knowledge or areas of expertise. Mine happen to be horticulture and entomology (oh, gee...words too big? They mean the study of plants and the study of insects, respectively). So do you begrudge me as well? Better question...do you even KNOW John or me? It is interesting that the two posters who jumped all over his innocent post are two folks we have never heard of - and lots of us have been here for a very long time. Or, as John questioned, are you regular posters using different names to what - hide your own identity and then continue to post?

This thread is most disconcerting. iso certainly didn't take it as being "picked on." I for one have learned much from this sort of discussion or correction. Frankly, I found the tongue info interesting and I think that is all John meant. Cham's have some very interesting biological and physiological attributes and mechanisms and I am sure most of us find this sort of info rather fascinating.

So exactly, who are you two? If you are regular posters then 'fess up and be honest and if you are not and feel so strongly about John's contributions then take yourselves elsewhere. I think you have seen that the majority of us will defend John and other regular contributors and would prefer that you just go away.

lele

>>Hi-
>>
>>Well I am sorry you feel this way. I have never seen you on this forum before, or you are posting under a different name! You should know your facts before you open your mouth. One of the big problems with chameleon husbandry is rumors. The e-zine articles I refer to from time to time, is to offer more reading on the subject in question. I am not the only one who refers people to e-zine articles, and I have been doing it from day one. The E-zine is edited so no urban myths are allowed to spread and has more accurate info then some of the older books. Opinions are welcomed, you will notice that when questionable info is posted there will be people posting their point of view on the topic. When you post links to offer more reading on the subject you offer more to the forum. I am sorry you feel I am coming off in a negative way, and I am not obsessed with my self. No, in no way did I EVER say I am an expert nor did I suggest that I am. As far as me not hatching eggs goes, once again you should watch what you say, I have worked with Jackson's in the past they do not lay eggs but you get my point. The problem with Jackson's is the females are very good at hiding the fact they are gravid, so planning for the babies is not so easy if you receive gravid females. With eggs you know more about when the eggs are laid and can plan for this. It would make no difference if you hatched eggs or not, in the end you still come out with babies and they have needs that must be met. I can assure you everything I write or post is from first hand experience or is clearly noted. Also you should know that I did not offer, ask, or imply to write for the E-zine nor did I bring up the topics written about. I was contacted and asked by Bill to do so after exchanging emails and what I wrote about were things that I had plans for way before writing the article and things Bill asked me about. I have worked in the wholesale pet industry for years, and managed a shop from top to bottom. I don't feel I need to tell you my whole life story, nor will I. As for my Ambilobe being Ambilobe, they are 100% pure Ambilobe. I am once again sorry if you fell they should be shot, this makes me concerned about your intent to care for chameleons and your knowledge of them. There is no way they are Ambanja or Sambava, a basic knowledge of panther locales would show this. My female Ambilobe is Ambilobe, I do have a Nosy be female and she is clearly labeled Nosy Be, just like the Ambilobe. I would not worry about feeling sorry for anyone who may get a CBB Ambilobe from me, because they certainly will not. The number of clutches has nothing to do with anything, I am not a farm, and focus on quality not quantity. I am not trying to impress anyone, my signature will remain as is. FYI I am not the only one with a signature. If this bothers you then please feel free not to read and or post replies to any of my posts. I change it from time to time, to mix things up. I hope I covered all your questions and insults, you will notice I did not returned the favor.
>>-----
>>John W. Lucas
>>
>>CHAMELEON PARADISE
>>
>>CHAMELEONS ONLINE E-ZINE AUTHOR
>>
>>Feeding Baby Chameleons
>>Caging Baby Chameleons
>>
>>
>>F. pardalis
>>
>>Ambilobe Locale
>>Nosy Be Locale
>>Sambava Locale
>>
>>Rhampholeon uluguruensis
>>
>>Eggs Incubating-
>>
>>F. pardalis - Ambilobe Locale
>>
>>got SILKWORMS!
>>
>>
>>Photo © Chameleon Paradise 2003

icequeen Oct 02, 2003 11:16 PM

lele...you and your big words!

sheesh!

Speaking only for myself...I love reading your posts! There is always something new and interesting in them.
You had your own twist to this forum...we have our own personal bug expert on here...not to mention all the information you've provided about plants.

I wouldn't be surprised if those two posts, were from the same person...just trying to stir the pot.

Ignore them. They don't deserve yours or Johns attention. If they have issues with helpful, informative posts from John, or yourself...they can skip them.
For those of us that enjoy them...we will continue to read them, and continue to appreciate the fact that we have people like you and John to help us out when we have questions.
-----
Kim

TylerStewart Oct 02, 2003 07:30 PM

I agree with all of you about these 2 posts. Why would anyone just jump in and do that? Someone's jealous I think. I think that anyone who is willing to help people here who need it (desperately and immediately sometimes) deserves a round of applause. They get nothing out of it and mean the best and answer to the best of their knowledge. I just read the articles in the E-Zine, and if nothing else, it got me off my butt and I went and got the fruit flies I will be needing soon. Just ignore these 2 and I think the less responses and attention they get, the less likely they'll be here again.
-----
Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
1.2 Nosy Be Panthers
2.2 Sambava Panthers
1.0 Tamatave Panther
1.0 Nosy Be X Unknown Cross
1.1 Veiled Chameleons
0.0.2 CBB Desert Tortoises
0.0.1 Sulcatta Tortoise

icequeen Oct 02, 2003 11:10 PM

Not to worry John...
You know most of us truly appreciate your experience, advice, good ideas...everything!
For the few who have issues with you, they have the option not to read your posts.
At least you have the "balls" to come on here, post as yourself, and stand up for yourself...whereas at least one of those two people were posting under an alias...even going as far as calling themself "alter ego".
....pathetic.

Anyway John...you can be sure that the vast majority of us on here appreciate the advice you offer...and I will continue to recommend your web site to others, the same as I always have.
-----
Kim

Carlton Oct 01, 2003 10:39 PM

I don't think any behavior is stupid if it meant the species survived successfully for thousands of years. Chams as a group are quite old in terms of paleontology...they have found identifiable chameleon bones at some VERY old anthropological digs. Not stupid, just different.

iso Oct 02, 2003 01:28 AM

I took these from a web site. a zoo. can not remember which one. I put the link there, but it did not take. sorry for the confusion.

I find it strange that a correction of a fact gets attacked. If it had been an opinion I could see a reason to maybe react to his reply... since it said fact - and was wrong - it was good that is was corrected..no?

I would hate for others to take a false fact and believe it.

thanks Cham Paradise. You have been nothing but helpful on this forum - and I appreciate ya.

chimbakka Oct 02, 2003 01:05 PM

Wow... that was an interesting chat. John didn't put you down in any way (as you know, I mean for the others who freaked out), he just added to what you had said. Isn't that the point of "facts". You decide what ones are real, and what ones not? You don't need to be an expert to know one or two, or be able to tell if one or two are wrong. Why are did those guys freak on John? Maybe some of you know the things he says, but some (LIKE ME) LEARN something when he, and others, mention things. I learned from what iso posted, and also what john added to it. I leaned NOTHING from the rude remarks of those other two.
Go figure...

Site Tools