Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Enjoy!

N/p

He sure does look nervous and fidgety.

You sir are an Idiot.... have you never seen a video of Kevin before? He's never more uncomfortable than when he's in front of a camera.

>>You sir are an Idiot....

WoW Raphy...... You post a video and someone responds with what they see and you say this....

Hope you feel better....
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

Yup, I put a lot of time and effort to get Kev to sit in front of a camera (which he hates) and talk about a project that he loves dearly with information that is only helpful to everyone and I have to hear people nitpicking... maybe i'm just having a bad day but just didn't feel like dumb stuff like that needs to be pointed out.

Good lord! Why take that rout?

So you're saying after Kevin made commits about males not producing males he wasn't going to set the record strait, you had to force him?

.....

You see.. I knew that's where you were going with this and that's why I replied the way I did.
The Gen 2 male that he used is a 2010 that he got to breed. That's when we started thinking something was up, then we confirmed with another breeder that has a Gen2 male also and he had the same results. So now that we know it's not a fluke we made the information public.
As far as Kevin talking about it.... if you've been around the BP world for any length of time you would know that he is very private person so of course going on camera to talk about anything is uncomfortable for him. I convinced him that this was important enough that he had to suck it up and do it just like i did with the lethal genes videos. He was going to just write up a blog post about it and that's it.

>>Yup, I put a lot of time and effort to get Kev to sit in front of a camera (which he hates) and talk about a project that he loves dearly with information that is only helpful to everyone and I have to hear people nitpicking... maybe i'm just having a bad day but just didn't feel like dumb stuff like that needs to be pointed out.

Didn't know you had a history with flamed1. I certainly don't. And after his/her next comment I'll just walk away from that topic.

Thanks for taking the time Raphy
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

I actually don't even know who that is. I can just tell when they are digging for something that isn't there. Been dealing with this type of stuff for over a year now so I guess u just learn to know when it's coming.
Check my "reptile hobby troll" video on YouTube and you'll now understand why I made that one LOL

Seen it. Lmfao!
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

Yup we dont have any history.

The way I look at it is I was pointing out what I was thinging. You in return thought it was necessary to reply with a derogatory remark, a simple explanation would have sufficed. If you would have taken that road there wouldn't have been a "situation". My post wasn't intended to slander Kevin matter of fact I have nothing against Kevin. My intent is not to stir anything just trying to understand this big mess of a project(regarding the genetics).

Raphy, you really need to check yourself, that commit was unnecessary, the way I look at it if your in the PR business you really need to have people skills. This is how things get out of hand and mud starts slinging. I'm not mad at you, just learn how to carry yourself.

I apologize to Kevin if there was any offense taken.

"My intent is not to stir anything just trying to understand this big mess of a project(regarding the genetics)"

Really? by pointing out how uncomfortable he looked while talking about this? How is that going to help you understand what's going on with the genetics of the Coral Glow? Did I miss something?
And thank you for the advise, but I knew where you were going when you made that first comment and true to what I thought you went there on your next post.
"So you're saying after Kevin made commits about males not producing males he wasn't going to set the record strait, you had to force him?"
Guess i'm just too used to dealing with this kinda stuff.

"Raphy, you really need to check yourself"
hmmm... not sure how to take that one so i'll just let it go.

Didn't know Kevin has a problem in front of the camera, now I know and that's why I apologized.

Take it like a professional, you called me an idiot...Im not mad.

Does he mean like a self check for testicular cancer??

Either way -- he got my attention.

Excuse me while I go dribble my balls a second.

BB

BB
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"Have you hugged your drummer today?" --- Me

possibly... I'm not sure though

.
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Scott Hager
Red Barn Reptiles

actually I didn't watch the video yet...
actually...nice ...idiot...really?....
aaaaand IF Kev is real nervous in front of the camera....????

WHY do you keep making videos of him...?...

find a hot little snake keeper with a short dress for God's sake and take a vid of her???...

just a thought.....

.....or at least Brian Barczyck...heck...he's kinda cute too...

LOL.....

(sorry Brian......)....
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........JY

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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

Too bad the results of all the clutches aren't readily available.

So the original coral glow was a female that produced an even # of male and female coral glows and normals. 1st generation male throws almost all female coral glows and male normals. Random 2nd generation male is produced and throws mostly male coral glows and female normals? or just slightly skewed that way?

Most of the stuff can be explained except the females throwing even #'s of male and female normals and glows. That's the part that doesn't quite fit to any sex-linked explanation. The flip-flop in 2nd gen males makes more sense than that

"So the original coral glow was a female that produced an even # of male and female coral glows and normals. 1st generation male throws almost all female coral glows and male normals. Random 2nd generation male is produced and throws mostly male coral glows and female normals? or just slightly skewed that way?"

Mostly males

"Most of the stuff can be explained except the females throwing even #'s of male and female normals and glows. That's the part that doesn't quite fit to any sex-linked explanation. The flip-flop in 2nd gen males makes more sense than that"

Yea, that's why I didn't understand the big deal when Ozz hatched some males from a female banana. Those females can make males and females at the same rate of any other morph. The males that she makes though will make you mostly females... by a lot. But if you hit on that one little boy then that's the one that will make you males consistently.

An interesting side note to all the sex-linked ZW talk that happens....

Boidae has a very primitive set of sex chromosomes. Their Z and W chromosomes look identical, and there is no real evidence that they follow the ZZ/ZW sex determination found in more advanced snakes like vipers or in birds. It's still very possible that the genes responsible for sex determination are found on the pair of chromosomes that eventually become the sex chromosomes in advanced snakes, but they may be interchangeable still.

There is a karyotype shown on page 5 of this publication....

http://www.seaturtle.org/PDF/Bull_1980_QRevBiol.pdf

Very interesting

I like your videos and i think you are making a great contribution to the ball python game.I give you the banana project is confusing. I mean when a geneticist is confused that means something! I just think its premature to try and lay out the genetics. And personaly, i wouldnt want to damage the breeder who is selling a male that got produced by a female. because we know that these males can produce males. i dont know how the gen2,gen3 etc will affect this. What would be really interesting to know is wether a super can be produced and what will it throw?
I would be curious if kevin has ever produced a super coral glow? i mean he has made every other project he had into a super. Did he produce a super coral?

no super CG has been made at NERD as of yet. He only paired CG to CG once before this season and for him to try it this time I had to almost beg him (female hasn't laid yet but is gravid). Kevins belief is that a super if there is one won't be anything remarkable so he focused all his attention on combos. The animal we've seen as a super banana really doesn't look much different than a lemon pastel CG or other combos i've seen. The goal isn't to make the most amount of animals but to make the most amazing looking ones by trying different things. For example i would've never thought the the hottest (in my eyes) CG combo so far would be the CG specter... that thing is HOT.

Kevin has a great plan then. I just wonder how the weird sex genetics will play out with using a super. But I agree the coral spectre is by far and away my favorite and a big congrats to Kevin for trying it. We should see the banana superstripe this upcoming year. I hope it's cool!

Man i'd love to see that. A banana super stripe HAS to be a beast of a snake

I feel like im watching one of those NFL episodes of Cmon Man?...I agree the coral glow/Banana project if definitely confusing BUT.... we know for a fact that males produced by will slough's original female DO produce males..... so why wouldnt Ozzy's males produced from a female also produce males? Why dont you guys just show clutch results like Ralph Davis and let us make our minds up about what the "FACTS ARE" ???? its hard to keep everything SO secret and then expect trust? And not to blow any holes in this theory but i hear Brock didnt produce a single male from his Banana male this year. they are from his coral glow. So how does that fit in? I agree the project is a great one to be involved in and im sure one day everyone is going to have a banana. But if a geneticist is confused maybe we hobbyist should tread carefully until more "FACTS" are revealed?

I think i did my job by posting the video with the information it contains. I can't force anyone believe one thing or another.

You know for a fact? Ok then. All i can do is present the information I have. Nothing more nothing less.

I dont think there have been secrets "held back", but I do believe the general public made up alot of rumors that turned into" secrets" about the project....
The info MaBalls posted is pretty much same results from a couple breeders.....everything up to date has been true in that female bananas only produce MOSTLY males. This year we found out that some of those males, make MALES predominately in a clutch....if it was such a secret, I dont think NERD or Brock WOULD HAVE SOLD the males they did knowing they produce males, and mostly males!

The White Smoke male is the originator of the Coral Glow line.

That is correct. He only bred one year and made just 2 female CGs. Those are the girls that built kevins CG collection until another male was made.

With the whitesmoke being the gen 1 male all subsequent coral glow males from those first females were gen 2 and and then gen 3 are the ones making males now according to the video. With that said the theory of producing males then females every other generation would be mute. I also agree with Clint, with all the secretiveness that has been going on, now coming out and saying "we are telling the facts now" is difficult for everyone. I would never call you nor Kevin a liar but with this project do we really even know any "facts" yet, lol. I've talked to one of the top genetics professors in the country about this and he even said he would have no idea on how this trait is being passed down unless the trait itself is on the same chromosome that the sex determination is on and therefore it will be hit or miss on whether a male can produce another male or not. From his theory, if a male is not producing male CG's or bananas it will never be able to. I will say this though, man I can't wait until there are more out there so I can afford one, maybe next year will be the year I make the jump on a female (males will be way to expensive for me for quite some time).
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Josh & Krysty Hutto

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

when i say gen 2 i mean just males that came from a male, so not counting any females that made males (i know it's not technically correct but just a way for me to keep track of it) so it went- daddy whitesmoke made 2 females (one didn't make it) the female that made it made a male eventually (not because it couldn't right away but simply because kevin kept wiffing on the odds) that male is the gen 1, then eventually he made a male but most of the time his offspring is female, that rare male that he makes though is what we referred to as gen 2- THAT is the one that when bred makes mostly males- ..... he also makes a rare female once in a while and I would love to see what THOSE females throw but that's gonna be a while i guess

I said we breed a female and make this and that...

That was an EXAMPLE.

I was not talking about the entire project. I was just trying to CLARIFY.

I bred a female and made this, and then I bred one of those and made that, then I took that offspring and made this...

Wow, I should have scripted it and studied it before we did it.

I came in from Rattlesnake Hunting, still all tired/worn and wired from all that and we sat down and made the video. First try, all done.

After all I am SATAN and EVIL so we can not expect to much!

Kevin

>>when i say gen 2 i mean just males that came from a male, so not counting any females that made males (i know it's not technically correct but just a way for me to keep track of it) so it went- daddy whitesmoke made 2 females (one didn't make it) the female that made it made a male eventually (not because it couldn't right away but simply because kevin kept wiffing on the odds) that male is the gen 1, then eventually he made a male but most of the time his offspring is female, that rare male that he makes though is what we referred to as gen 2- THAT is the one that when bred makes mostly males- ..... he also makes a rare female once in a while and I would love to see what THOSE females throw but that's gonna be a while i guess
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Female mother coral glow makes any sex ratio in any of its babies, be it coral or not. It can make both male and female coral glows.

Male coral glow whose mother was a CORAL GLOW, makes MOSTLY female coral glows....and on rare occasion, a random coral glow male might pop up.

One of these pop up males when bred, makes more male coral glows on a more consistent basis? Is this the jist of it?
Or does one of these males when bred, make only coral glow males, and the normal non coral glow offspring are female? I think thats what I understood

Nice vids, Kev!!! Can we leave out the clown to your left??!! He's really annoying............PEACE!!!!

Hahhahah I love you too!

Like you said one Raphy haters will keep hating. All i have to say is Kevin continues to amaze with the incrdeible animals he produces and if it was not for his vision all those years ago i myself would probably not be in this hobby bought my first green tree from him as well as my first ball He is a great guy and always willing to help and Kevin says a lot more than he needs to. Thanks again Kevin for the info keep it coming man see you a the shop sometime when your there.

craig