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OK here's the two pictures of Hubbs kings with the high band counts I promised. These are the highest "documented" in the wild.
47 bands from neck to vent.
48.5 bands
I've found a bunch of kings in the same area and none were that high in count. This next one is F1 Long Beach locale I hatched with around 39 or 40 bands neck to vent.
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I think the band count for a male and female is different as a female has a shorter tail.
Is Brians a female and yours a male. i counted and it seems your specimen (if its a male) got shortchanged on this idea. I counted 44 bands on Brians and your F1 Long beach has 44 bands.
I theeen Brian is hanging around many mexicans and can't honestly count anymore. I theeen so!
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www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
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"I think the band count for a male and female is different as a female has a shorter tail"
Am I missing something here?. What difference would band-counts have between a male or female when the white band-counts are taken from the neck to vent(cloaca)?.
Also, when an incomplete band goes only half-way around the body, or splits-off into two on one side only, every two pairs of these are generally counted as one additional complete band/ring.
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing" 
Yeah, that's how I count them as well.
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Yep,......and there are many folks that aren't aware of this, but while it is the WHITE body rings that are counted in kingsnakes, in milksnakes it is the RED body rings(RBR) that are counted to the vent. The reason being is that the red pigment in milksnake's tails can very often be totally abscured with black pigment, making an accurate count un-discernible(per K. William's ~Systematic).
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
Yeah, you're right. Milk snake tails would make it very confusing.
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In this CASE, I agree with Doug,
On our study site, the state issued instructions on how to count bands, blotches, or triads.
We are instructed to count from behind the head to the vent and list that number. Then we count tail banding seperate.
With banded snakes, we list both colors. The lite bands and the darker bands.
ALso if a band splits into two, its counted as one. There is some field judgement here as some kings have very messed up banding.
This WC king has a series of interconnecting bands that make counting not so exact. Cheers
Hey FR!
I know that is the proper way to do it (count from the neck to vent) just saying from a puerely asthetic standpoint. You might prefer a male with less rings than a female cause the extra tail length and connected bands on a male adds more pizzaz.
I know that these crucial arguements upset Doug much more than we can imagine and for that I am going to stick to the bands on a male are more than on a female. LOL!
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www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
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That's because you like to fight ONLINE.
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
And it's about correct information. Hahaha!
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
That's because you like to fight ONLINE
I think my wife would disgree. I fight with anyone anywhere. Not just inline. HA HA!
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www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
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I can relate. Lol!
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
Actually Gerard, its you that likes to fight online.
This is not science or a field study. We can all count of keep or do what we want. All Bluerosy needed to do is explain how he was counting.
I know our Mister Hubbs and who the heck knows what hes doing. Hes hubbs and a very unique individual as well.
Also if you took that snake I posted and had 10 people count the bands, you would get many different answers.
This forum is full of individuals, and its not a peer reviewed paper or forum. The huge advantage of THIS FORUM is we all give our own perspective. And thank god its not the same.
Unfortunately, many folks are sheep and WANT TO WALK IN A LINE. Good on you. I prefer to NOT walk in that line. I prefer to hear Rainers individual unique experiences. Particularly, because he is doing so well and HAVE A UNIQUE perspective.
I can then make my OWN unique choice to incorporate his methods or not, or just read them and enjoy them that way.
My guess is, if we met up in a bar, WE WOULD HAVE A REALLY GOOD TIME. And they may have to throw us out because we are having such a good time.
Which means Gerard, why do you not want us to NOT have a good time listening/reading eachothers unique perspectives?
So my deduction is, you are the one here whos the trouble maker.
I do what I want to do and not what any of you tell me. But if any of you happen to come up with something I could use. I would steal/take/borrow/absorb it in a split second. I would do it so fast that you would think I invented it. hahahahahahaha
If I were to address your behavior, I would say your having control issues. Your trying to control what Rainier is saying and not worrying just doing what you should do, and that is, just do what you WANT TO DO AND SAY. Stop worrying about Rainier.
If this was a real world, and we all got together. We would form groups some liking them and not liking the other, thats what people do. So who cares who you like or don't like.
Actually, I have been getting along fine with Rainer lately. I don't walk any lines. My fighting comment was to him saying in spite of Dougs info. Then he made a joke about asking his wife which I could totally agree with. Then all Was good. It was a joke that didn't lead to a fight. So I don't know where this came from.
I love hearing everyone's opinions. I really like hearing yours. I have stolen ideas from you for awhile.
Troublemaker? If I think you are wrong I will tell you. On here and in person. I'm not fighting I am arguing my opinion. Not only would I bet that we would have a good time in a bar but Im down to make it happen. Except for Davis, he's a idiot!
It's not about you teaching new things that sticks me. I don't ever fight that. It's the delivery that gets me sometimes. Sometimes Rainer and I talk fine and sometimes we argue. I don't see anything wrong with that. I never said I don't like Rainer. One of the first things he ever said to me was that I was a Idiot and that I wouldn't say anything to his face. So, have we gotten along after that? What's the first thing I'm going to say to his face when I meet him? Rainman! After that we are square. As far as controlling Rainer. It's more correcting him. He thinks he knows everything and sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he says things that make no sense. He always seems to avoid explaining anything he says when questioned.
So I think you are wrong in assuming that one, I was attacking him and two, that I'm a sheep. What makes you say that? You have no clue what I work with or the things I have invented. I live on thinking outside the box. If your ever in Florida I have a bottle of scotch and we will talk. I will so you my herd of sheep.
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
It's good scotch!
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
Your post exudes the sweet essence of hypocracy, ignorance, pompousness and arrogance at it's most accurate definition..LOL!
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
Yes you are missing something as usual.
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www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
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........that is exactly what type of typical response I was expecting to get from you Rainer. See, you shouldn't have to feel threatened or belittled if you are wrong or don't know something now and then, or if you happen to learn something from someone here and there along the way. Most people would have taken what I said much more in stride without going to the great legths to find a stupid picture on the net and weird comment to go along with it, but that seems to be very typical of you most of the time.
And no, I didn't miss a thing there, but you obviously did. You already acknowledged in the same post that band-counts were taken from neck to vent, which of course they are. And also in the very next sentence talk about tail length possibly being a factor in the counts between males and females. So how could that possibly be?. If anything it would be in any possible STV (snout to vent)differences, but not necessarily since all patterns vary from individual to individual.
Was I clear enough this time? You might try reading things a bit more thoroughly and actually comprehending what is said before you comment on things. Or at the very least when someone inquires or clarifies something you said, you don't find the need to mock them or make very unnecessary comments to make yourself feel better. Believe me, it doesn't make you look any smarter by doing it.
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
Listen dipstick. I did count the bands from neck to vent. What i said was that males have longer tails and so they may have the appearance of a higher band count. Making them more appealing to the eye. duh!
Want me to draw a picture of a males tail from vent to end and a females?
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www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
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..and I only counted 40 bands on Brians snake unless you count the incomplete bands which roos's snake does have.
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www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
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...I'm still looking for the photo you asked for but in the meantime, here's this one....
I don't think these count as bands really.....
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!
Those are super cool though. Did you hold onto any?
Put me down for some next year if you produce any.
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www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
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>>...I'm still looking for the photo you asked for but in the meantime, here's this one....
>>I don't think these count as bands really.....
Those are SMOKIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
hahaha Well, he doesn't count the tail, only up to the vent. Its better that way because sometimes you run into stump tails out in the field.
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I have posted a picture here before (years ago) of both a high band count and a low band count. I found the picture of the low band count.....still looking for the high band count picture.
Captive bred of course.
Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.
Wow, that's the lowest band count I've seen on any Cal king that I can remember, Kerby. Here's the lowest I've seen for wild caught's. This first one is a Desert phase, probably from Anza Borrego found by Kent.
A picture I took several years ago of a low band count coastal from Ventura Co. found by Mark Hilands.
I haven't found any even close to these.
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