Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.
is the flame gene just a high red hypo? are the two genes compatible, or do you get double hets if you breed the two? Not sure if this litle guy is a simple hypo or a flame?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
That is a simple hypo. I am not sure what is going on with Agosta Flames. But they sure are different.
I guess somebody needs to breed a regular hypo to an agosta and see what happens? Maybe it is the phenotype from the original red Fengya normal flames that is causing the unreal glowing colors when combined with the hypo recessive trait.
I know that the Fengya flame combined with the anery trait makes for a ghost looking anery. So I am guessing it is the phenotype.
If it is the phenotype. The original "normals" did not look all that. What i mean is their have been much redder normals that I have seen. But sometimes a darker red combined with a recessive trait makes for more spectacular animals in the visual recessive.
Bottom line is anyone with unusual normals (and i have seen some dark rusty ones posted here lately) should breed that into some recessives. It goes to show that not to many are not putting forth breeding efforts as they could. Otherwise there would be even more variation with the recessive traits.
I would like to see sulfur axanthics!
-----
www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So no one has bred the Flames to a normal Hypo? Also are you sure that baby is a normal? You first said it was a Peanut Butter? It doesn't look like the other hypo baby I have.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
You first said it was a Peanut Butter? It doesn't look like the other hypo baby I have..So no one has bred the Flames to a normal Hypo? Also are you sure that baby is a normal?
Not sure i understand what you are asking? Are you saying the first pic is just a normal non recessive? Or are you saying that you don't know if the first baby is a PB or a hypo? If so, what was the parantage?
As far as if anyone has bred the Flame to a normal Hypo. I don't know if anyone has. But I am sure the normal visual flames from fengya were bred to hypo to get the insane colored Flames that we see now. So my guess would be if you kept breeding out the fengya phenotype, it would get less flamish. And we don't want to be less flamish.
Man that sounded ghey!
BTW I have pics I need to scan of Fengyas original normal Flames. One day I will find the time to scan them and post them here.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Not sure i understand what you are asking? Are you saying the first pic is just a normal non recessive? Or are you saying that you don't know if the first baby is a PB or a hypo? If so, what was the parantage?"
I'm just trying to figure out what is what. I know this is not a PB. But since you said it was the first time I posted it, it just proves how confusing all this can be, lol. My original inquiry is are the 2 genes the same or compatible? By the way, scanning is a pain, I agree!
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
To be honest i didn't hardly glance at the pic Jorge. i just read what you wrote.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>is the flame gene just a high red hypo? are the two genes compatible, or do you get double hets if you breed the two? Not sure if this litle guy is a simple hypo or a flame?
I think its a regular hypo.
daveb
-----
odelay odelay odelay hee hoooo...
heeeeya huhhhh!
~Back in the saddle (Aerosmith)
Yeah I'm pretty sure it's a normal too, but it's just so much redder than the other one. It got me thinking about the flames, and wheather or not they are the same gene?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
Like I said. I have pictures of the original Fengya Flames. All he did was breed it into a hypo. All hypos originally came from Love stock.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so what are you saying? Where did the flames come from?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
They originally came from Bob Fengya. Same guy who originated the New England axanthic brooks kings.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That still begs the question: where did he get the animals that "originated" that line?
.....and there were others who popped out hypos that did not originate from Love's animals.
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!
You are right!
-----
Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
"That still begs the question: where did he get the animals that "originated" that line?
.....and there were others who popped out hypos that did not originate from Love's animals"
I agree Mark, and the question of exactly "what" specific animals originated Bob's flame line is more relavent than "who" originated them, although that is also a great tid-bit of info for hobbyists to know. Too bad we didn't remember to talk about that at his table at the show among other things..LOL!. Seems that there are always so many topics to talk about with different people at shows that you just can't get into or remember all the subjects when the time comes..LOL!
Some of those mosaic's he had that we were looking at were just outstanding, weren't they?.. 
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
That still begs the question: where did he get the animals that "originated" that line?
.....and there were others who popped out hypos that did not originate from Love's animals
All the hypos that popped out back then were sold as unkown hets to people from the Loves. So you could say they originated all of the hypos, since all trace back to them.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Beard hatched his own hypos from adult he collected himself. He also bought the hypos from Kevin but did hatch his own line. You are wrong about that.
-----
Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
So did Len Krysko. From a wc he acquired...and nOT from the Loves.....
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!
From what I was able to gather from Len, he produced his hypos from his WC brooks king named Banana bred to a captive-bred Love line female.
-----
www.brooksi.com
From what I was able to gather from Len, he produced his hypos from his WC brooks king named Banana bred to a captive-bred Love line female.
yep!
And Doug Beard had hypos way after they were hatched out from Kevin maxwell. That is why I asked you (gerard) when he hatched out his hypos from suppossed w/c stock. The truth is he didn't want to anyone to know he was getting them from kevin. kevin knows this and knows what was going on at that time. Doug never hatched out hypos from wildcaught stock except when he bred the first ones acquired from kevin and bred it to normals from Homestead.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't want to bring the personal info into this about other people(not you) about what was going on at that time but you have no clue what your talking about. Doug hatched his own line and you can talk all the crap you want but that's all you have...CRAP!!! Why do you say that Doug didn't hatch his own line?
-----
Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
if you know so much about what Doug did and what went on in his snake room. Then why don't you know when he hathced out the first hypo from his w/c stock?
Amazing isn't it! I mean, thet he had ALL these hypos in 1994 from kevin Maxwell and from ALLLLLLLL the people breeding Floridas in ALLLLLLLLL the United states. HE ALSO hatched out a hypo from his own w/c animals at that time. AT the same time he secretly bought hypos from kevin Maxwell and resold them for $700. a peice.
AMAZING COINCIDENCE`~!
Ask kevin. He knows what was going on at that time.
Bottom line is that every hypo from back then has been traced back to the Loves selling normals that were unkown hets.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Look, you still know nothing. I didn't hear your name in any of that. It's all hearsay. Ask Frank what that means. Doug said he hatched hypos from WC animals what proof do you have against that? What about the hypos Mark was talking about? Why don't you question that line and say they came from the loves line. The male was a WC. The snakes all came from the same area. Like I said I'm not going into what Kevin was doing at that time but why wasn't he selling them himself for big money? Why was he selling them to Doug? You don't know everything and the sooner you accept that you will be a better person to talk to.
-----
Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
Kevin sold the hypos to Doug for $100 each and Doug B. sold them for $700 each. Kevin had no clue what they were selling for . I bought some from Doug B. myself and people were crowed around his table with money in hand . . Doug must had over 100 on his table at orlando in 1995. He said all his hypos were a different line from the Loves and ALL came from his wildcaughts.
Of course Doug did not want the public to know he was getting from some small breeder and just flipping them. So he bred the original animals he got in 92 from Kevin and bred them into wild stock. Byt teh time he started selling them he had a sh!t load and made off quite well for about 3 years at $700. a paice.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you learned nothing from Frank? Where is your proof that he did not produce hypos from animals he caught? You know nothing! You are assuming that's how it happend. He never lied about buying Kevins animals. How many females does it take to make 100 hypos? You get how many clutches from a female?
When Len bred his WC to a love hypo did they produce hypos in the first generation?
-----
Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
LP added a correction to the Krysko story. Len bred his WC het hypo back to one of its daughters to produce hypos. The Love-line female involved did not carry the hypo trait.
-----
www.brooksi.com
So it is a separate strain of hypo?
-----
Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com
Nope. All the Love/Beard/Krysko hypos are the same gene. They all surfaced independently.
-----
www.brooksi.com
That is what I have on my little note pad....
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!
That is not what I gathered. I talked with him for a few hours at a time over a few years and took down, as best I could, all pertinent info. obviously, I could be mistaken since I can't read my own writing sometimes......but...
since you guys have all the answers and I wish I had not brought a friend's name into any of this (since he doesn't play here)
I'll leave it all up to you to decide what's what....
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!
Len told me it was his WC male bred to a CB female he purchased from another breeder. It was a friend of Len's that told me that the CB female was from the Loves. I never even thought to ask about it last time I talked to Krysko.
It doesn't really matter these days anyway. A hypo is a hypo no matter where it came from. It would be nice if we had some sort of written reference for this kind of stuff, though.
-----
www.brooksi.com
I believe Len's first visual hypos in 94 were a result of breeding the Banana male back to his 1992 daughters.
Yeah, that sounds right. The CB (presumed Love line) female he initially bred Banana to wasn't het for hypo.
-----
www.brooksi.com
>>So did Len Krysko. From a wc he acquired...and nOT from the Loves.....
>>:Mark
>>-----
>>Surrender Dorothy!
>>
>>crimsonking.piczo.com/
jeez, i almost forgot about the krysko's. they also produced some nice red (orange) hypos
-----
odelay odelay odelay hee hoooo...
heeeeya huhhhh!
~Back in the saddle (Aerosmith)
But Len used a love stock hypo to produce his hypos. Just the new stock phenotype was different that he crossed the hypo into...and made them look different.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>But Len used a love stock hypo to produce his hypos. Just the new stock phenotype was different that he crossed the hypo into...and made them look different.
that's OK with me, i am ignoring that discussion for now with the pleasant memories clanking around in my brain of meeting len at daytona and working with some of his animals. forgot all about it for a while.
-----
odelay odelay odelay hee hoooo...
heeeeya huhhhh!
~Back in the saddle (Aerosmith)
That still begs the question: where did he get the animals that "originated" that line?
.....and there were others who popped out hypos that did not originate from Love's animals
I think we got our wires crossed here. Bob originated the red normals which he bred into the "common" hypo strain.
if you are asking where he got his red flames...I suspect , since he was a die hard old canal collector. That is where he got them.
I think i mentioned this bfoire. I have pictures of the very first red flame normals he had. They are actual paper photographs. And they lames" did not look all that compared to what we see today. If you saw the pictures , you would be disspointed and surprised.
I think the difference was his normal red flames look very "brooksi"... Similar to his New England line of axanthics. The red ones we see today have more red. But come from northern locales. Maybe that is the difference?.. Or maybe people are just not bothering with outcrossing hypo and axanthics into newer nicer stock.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i used to hatch out red red hatchlings from love hypos, and i would say wow that's great, and when i would show everyone, i'd get "meh". hahaha
who knows what will become of it. there are multiple axanthics, snows, this, that... find some good stock and isolate your own red line. rainer can point out the markers for good red hypos, when you go stock shopping, look for those markers and aquire those types of animals.
keep it up.
daveb
-----
odelay odelay odelay hee hoooo...
heeeeya huhhhh!
~Back in the saddle (Aerosmith)
rainer can point out the markers for good red hypos, when you go stock shopping, look for those markers and aquire those types of animals.
HA HA! Funny you mention that. I had a friend who knows Florida morphs real well go to the Orlando show this weekend and he said he saw some smoking red hypos there for only $30. on somebodys table.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com
nananananananannana-i can't hear you!-nananananananana!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
see?!?!?!?!?!
-----
odelay odelay odelay hee hoooo...
heeeeya huhhhh!
~Back in the saddle (Aerosmith)
...one of those "low rent market crashers" I've heard about!
haha!
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!
>>...one of those "low rent market crashers" I've heard about!
>>haha!
>>
Now that's funny!.......Politely STFU.......lmao!!!!!
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
That clip will be in my mind for a long time to come!!!
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
Yeah well, Rainer thought it was a peanut Butter, lol.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
I don't know about the flame line at all but this guy looks like many I produced when I bred hypos. I've taken a few years off with them but should be back with a few next year and may breed one I hatched out from hypos that is very different from all others I produced before.
I used to get some of the most intense red babies.... and some would fade almost completely while others held their colors well into adulthood.
Also had the ones I called "straw colored" that would become more yellow.
Years ago many of us mixed and matched the hypos. Some of us liked the deep reds and some liked the yellow but it's when you mix them up that you get some oddballs.....
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!
Looks like this Tim Ricks line Hypo I had many years ago....
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
>>Looks like this Tim Ricks line Hypo I had many years ago....
>>
Yes it does have a resemblence! I'm fairly sure this guy is just a normal hypo, a bit on the red side maybe. I just wanted to throw the question out there about the compatability of flames and hypos. I've had a few people ask me what is the difference, and genetically I really don't know. You would think some one here would have bred them together at one time?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
Help, tips & resources quick links
Manage your user and advertising accounts
Advertising and services purchase quick links
