Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A couple of weeks or so ago there was a discussion here on if someones Florida King was fat or not. Bluerosy mentioned skinny snakes with big heads and how that can be a bad sign. If anyone is unsure of what he meant by this description take a look on the classifieds as someone(they shall remain nameless) is selling a "Real Deal" wc Brooksi. Either the poor thing has been neglected in captivity or it has not long to be on this earth due to internal parasites etc...That guy should be ashamed of himself for trying to sell a snake thats in that shape. Im tempted to buy it and see if I can bring it around but he is asking a ridiculous price for it, very sad indeed.

Lu

Seen it, its pretty thin. I've found some old Cal kings in the wild pretty thin like that. If that one is really a wild caught, it might be worth the price to breed it as long as it lasts if it still can.
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Lu, there's no skinny head nor skinny spine on that wonderful wild caught brooks. It appears fine in the photos and looks like your average wild caught specimen and is proudly marketed so rather than a fattened captive born specimen.

Dan

A couple of weeks or so ago there was a discussion here on if someones Florida King was fat or not. Bluerosy mentioned skinny snakes with big heads and how that can be a bad sign. If anyone is unsure of what he meant by this description take a look on the classifieds as someone(they shall remain nameless) is selling a "Real Deal" wc Brooksi. Either the poor thing has been neglected in captivity or it has not long to be on this earth due to internal parasites etc...That guy should be ashamed of himself for trying to sell a snake thats in that shape. Im tempted to buy it and see if I can bring it around but he is asking a ridiculous price for it, very sad indeed.

Lu

Lu:

A few of the regulars contacted me about your post and pointed out a few suspect things.

Despite the ad photos depict a healthy normal wild caught brooks, if you felt differently in the least, then why not simply telephone the seller and offer your assistance? Or ask for updated photos, inquire about fecal's/diet etc. Why go out of your way to spend much time signing onto a forum and writing a paragraph demeaning a seller and animal? Why knock anyone or any animal in the first place? Folks knocking only expose a reflection of themselves.

Why do you make mention to want to buy the brooks if the price was right for you? You say you believe it has parasites and is dying or was under bad care. What basis is your information? Why would you want to bring a snake you believed to have parasites into your collection? That is not a great way to form a long-term relationship with any seller nor a good way to make friends.

As to your assessment of pricing, I would bid to disagree. A true wild caught brooks is reasonable priced at $150 especially since there have been very few ever offered for sale these days.

No offense meant, but the only truly sad indeed things I saw was your attack on a seller and decent looking wild caught brooks king snake. We should all stick together as big brother is aiming to shut us all down eventually.

Dan

A couple of weeks or so ago there was a discussion here on if someones Florida King was fat or not. Bluerosy mentioned skinny snakes with big heads and how that can be a bad sign. If anyone is unsure of what he meant by this description take a look on the classifieds as someone(they shall remain nameless) is selling a "Real Deal" wc Brooksi. Either the poor thing has been neglected in captivity or it has not long to be on this earth due to internal parasites etc...That guy should be ashamed of himself for trying to sell a snake thats in that shape. Im tempted to buy it and see if I can bring it around but he is asking a ridiculous price for it, very sad indeed.

Lu

Look that snake is thin and looks unhealthy. Why wouldnt this guy treat this animal and put some meat on its bones before selling it? Fact of the matter is there is no good reason to sell an animal in that shape. Thats thinner than normal wild weight for a snake.

Lu

Lu:

I agree it's not a fat captive raised animal but by no means is it sick looking. It's an average wild caught and was marketed as a wild caught. It does not have a shrunken head, spine showing or ribs showing like your initial post pretendeds to thwart. And you already know that a fat snake would be suspect as a sale for a fresh wild caught, so why go there?

No offense but you must have not worked with dozens of wild caught's to even start pointing fingers/making judgements or else you would quickly agree the snake looked normal as many of the other viewers emailed me about on this forum. Did you contact the seller to ask for updated photos or inquire into diet and or fecal's? No. From what I saw, you jumped out of your chair when you realized that you could not afford the animal.

Again, no offense its more likely that you are jealous as your only interest to start a thread was clear with your statements to knock the price so you can afford it.

It's gobbled down 20 mice so far the last few weeks and has normal fecal's and is in fine shape. It actually sold yesterday and is situated with a fine breeder of brooks who desired fresh blood. Again, no offense but perhaps vice judging other snakes and such, judge yourself and would strongly suggest to simply telephone if you wish to inquire as knocking someone only reflects what you think about yourself.

Dan

Look that snake is thin and looks unhealthy. Why wouldn't this guy treat this animal and put some meat on its bones before selling it? Fact of the matter is there is no good reason to sell an animal in that shape. That's thinner than normal wild weight for a snake.

Lu

Im envious of the snake and I want it but I cant afford it? Wow you know many things about me and my buying prowess LOL I never said I couldnt afford it I said I wouldnt throw away 150 on a snake thats thin and combined with the fact its wild raises more alarms about its health. Im sorry that your reputation is so that you cant sell a healthy weight animal and still be taken at your word as to its origins. This admission by you makes it sound like you intentionally kept it thin as to add to its authenticity as a WC animal. Sorry you didnt like my assessment of your snake but you provided excellent photograph's and background info that enabled the critique. In the future maybe you should worry less about what looks "believable" and marketing schemes and worry more about the animal itself.

Lu

p.s. Here is a Florida Kingsnake WC this past spring that I treated for a number of WC ailments. He is now robust and doing great!

Lu:

You said it again, not me.

And next time you see something you really want that you believe is questionable, just reach out to help your fellow man and not hinder as your actions will always catch up with you in the long run and you will always make more friends offering kindness verses envy.

Dan

"Im envious of the snake and I want it but I cant afford it"
Lu

Very good you can take things out of context. Seems you make posts like you sell animals...shady.

Lu

Lu:

There's nothing too shady about your attempts to knock the snake in order to obtain a discount. You're probably not the first who tried and failed so don't let that get to you.

And now that you're all the wiser, the next time you want a snake so bad, don't waste your valuable time knocking it on some forum. Just be polite and telephone the seller and ask some routine questions such as diet, request current photos, fecals, how long in captity etc. And maybe offer your experienced advice if you think it can help. It is for certain that folks reading that you went out of your way to knock a snake you know nothing about may not project you as a prospective great buyer.

And although I cannot recall seeing any offered before, just keep your chin up and save as wild-caught brooks don't seem to come cheap.

Dan

Well DTS when I do want a healthy snake or even a WC one I get them from people I trust. Its a short list and dont bother checking your name isnt on it.

Lu

Here is a male Dade Co. Florida King. Its not a Brooksi though as it takes more than locality for a Floridana to be considered a Brooks. Obviously you arent aware of this.

Best wishes and would agree that you need to work at modifying your communication skills in order to get those discounts.

Dan

Let it go Dan... it's obvious you won't get anything across... anyone bothering to read this thread can see that with each reply you've been polite and taken the higher ground despite having been insulted every step of the way... says a lot more about you and your reputation than one lone voice crying out "It's so thin! Shame on you" or "you're starving it to keep that wc look?"

It was a great looking snake, didn't see anything in that photo that would raise undo alarm for a wc.

Let it be, the thread speaks for itself.

Gerry

Gerry, yea, I had plenty of folks who wanted the brooks specifically due to the fact that it appeared "wild caught". Had it been fattened over time, it would of been viewed with skepticism to be perhaps a captive raised specimen and I would prefer the buyer see it tackle a mouse like a vicious animal and see it was a real deal brooks along with its scrappy attitude and wild appearance, or at least that would be what I would want to view in a legitimately "wild caught" snake. Same goes with the albino yellow rat that was wild caught a few years ago by my friend. I sold it fresh caught so the buyer could observe its behavior and body condition to feel secure that it was indeed a wild caught snake. I actually saw 12 brooks last month and picked up only the one to keep as a pet and then after consulting with some top experts in the field, it was recommended to allow it to move to a specialized brooks breeder since I am tied with many other projects. I have personally viewed many ads over the years and saw some folks advertising animals and they may of overlooked imperfections or something odd/unhealthy, and I dropped what I was doing and telephoned the seller and inform them of the issue and was thanked for my concern for them. It would never in a million years even cross my mind to go public to demean the animal or the seller. That would seem be warped behavior and no offense meant to Lu as I am sure he is a good guy who thought he could get a discount if he went public to demean. I am no expert but have been seeing fla kings in the wild almost every year since 1972 and the biggest thrill is knowing the brooks are still out there despite most of their habitat in Florida has been destroyed by development. All you gotta know is where and when and its more so a matter of when as they move heavy just 2 times a year.

Dan

Let it go Dan... it's obvious you won't get anything across... anyone bothering to read this thread can see that with each reply you've been polite and taken the higher ground despite having been insulted every step of the way... says a lot more about you and your reputation than one lone voice crying out "It's so thin! Shame on you" or "you're starving it to keep that wc look?"

It was a great looking snake, didn't see anything in that photo that would raise undo alarm for a wc.

Let it be, the thread speaks for itself.

Gerry

" Gerry, yea, I had plenty of folks who wanted the brooks specifically due to the fact that it appeared "wild caught". Had it been fattened over time, it would of been viewed with skepticism to be perhaps a captive raised specimen and I would prefer the buyer see it tackle a mouse like a vicious animal and see it was a real deal brooks along with its scrappy attitude and wild appearance, or at least that would be what I would want to view in a legitimately "wild caught" snake. "

Now, this statement I find both interesting and strange.

I am all for keeping snakes at a good weight, and I do deplore the fact about how fat some keepers do indeed keep their snakes obese. With that being said, I find it disturbing though that you are admitting you would have kept a wild caught snake at a skinnier weight to " appear wild caught ". Yes, it is a fact that wild caught snakes are leaner than the typical overfed fat snakes we are unfortunately used to seeing in captivity, but the fact you think people would have viewed it in a sceptical light due to its' weight is absurd.

Is your reputation not good enough for people to believe that it is wild caught? Why do you feel you need to keep the snake possibly underfed to " convince " buyers what you are saying is true?

I saw the ad, and even though I think the snake was a little bit on the skinny side, I do not feel that it was near death's door or anything. I do feel that it could have used some more meals to beef it up, as Brooks, generally, are stocky snakes to begin with. You could have done so by giving it a few more meals, put a little more weight on it, and it still would have looked like some wild-caught Brooks out there.

A " real deal " Brooks will still tackle a mouse like a vicious animal when captive bred and fed on a much better frequency, than depriving it of a few more needed meals. Kind of twisted logic, if you ask me.

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Genesis 1:1

Discern:

I find your statements strange and interesting also.

There are thousands of reports on my web page of legitimate institutions and well-known named folks receiving perfect snakes and it increased by 20 or more each week and I've never received any report of anyone ever receiving a sick or misrepresented snake. Just many thanks for great service and animals.

And what is interesting is why you are so discerned with me when you could of saved $150 and got that beauty for yourself.

Dan

DISCERN: "Now, this statement I find both INTERESTING and STRANGE."

Dan,

I am not debating that people have not received good animals from you. That was not even the point of my input.

Using the term " discerned " is just plain bad English my friend.

You have yet to answer one single solitary question I asked in my post. Why is that? You have done nothing but deflected onto other things, instead of sticking with the issue at hand. Instead, you try to be clever with my screen name, which resulted in a butchery of the English language.

It is not impressive that you would not feed a snake, to make it appear in a physical sense, " wild caught. " That, in itself, is kinda of cruel.

NEXT!
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Genesis 1:1

No offense, but I do not know your real name nor Lu's so any comments by either must be taken with a grain of salt.

The customer is quite happy with the great brooks, so any interest you display in this matter is obviously suspect.

Being suspect, if you would like to go into details, just simply pick up the phone and telephone me. I will be happy to enlighten you after I determine that any of your interest in these matters is legitimate. But you would have to prove a valid/legitimate interest before you take up valuable time.

And no offense meant by spelling as I don't usually check.

A better question though is what makes you think (after the brooks ate 20 rodents in captivity and fecal's were checked) that I (or anyone for that matter) would ship a sick snake when the customer would return it and nearly 100 dollars would be wasted on shipping expense? That does not make sense nor does it make sense for anyone to assume such nonsense of sending a sick snake. It is more so suspect of someone creating a mountain out of a mole hill - and for no reason but to impress his friends.

And this is despite its photos depicted a normal and healthy snake. Have you ever viewed any verifiable report of me shipping a sick snake? No. So what are you talking about with reputation? Are you talking about my reputation of breaking my back and sacrificing my family to earn 5 distinguishing medals from my many years in the military?

If you wish to dwell into the philosophy of why my friends persuaded me to move the brooks to an established breeder of brooks then maybe you can debate that with them but I move about 20 orders per week and am very busy and don't recall much of those conversations.

But feel rested that the buyer has the brooks and is quite happy. And I am going herping today in hopes to find a fine female for him.

Cruel is another word you should think about and verifiy before projecting it onto someone you do not know. I buy many animals that are needing help just for the sake to help them and donate them after fixing them up to my many good customers or institutions I serve.

Dan

Dan,

I am not debating that people have not received good animals from you. That was not even the point of my input.

Using the term " discerned " is just plain bad English my friend.

You have yet to answer one single solitary question I asked in my post. Why is that? You have done nothing but deflected onto other things, instead of sticking with the issue at hand. Instead, you try to be clever with my screen name, which resulted in a butchery of the English language.

It is not impressive that you would not feed a snake, to make it appear in a physical sense, " wild caught. " That, in itself, is kinda of cruel.

NEXT!

Dan,

If the brooks ate 20 rodents in your possession, it should have been a little heavier. So, it is debatable that you are even speaking accurate facts.

I never even brought up reputation. You did. I never even used the word.

Why do you insist on not answering questions about your logic of not feeding a Florida king to make it appear " wild caught "?
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Genesis 1:1

Maybe we can progress if you call me and express your legitimate interest in any matters of the healthy brooks.

You did not post your real name, so who are you and why won't you disclose who you are and what your valid interest is in any of the matters of the nice brooks and the happy customer?

To correct your misdirection, the snakes at my facility are fed several times on schedules, and this one ate 20 small mice over 3 weeks. Of course the snake was heavier and filled out better when it was shipped, so why do you care about that too? There is no logic in not feeding any snake so I do not know what you are referring to. It did help though to show photos of the snake not fattened to provide some security to the buyer that it was wild caught. If you jumped to a conclusion that the snake was starved for photos, then that is odd.

So if it made him happy and me happy, then what's your continued interest in all of this and what is your name?

Dan,

If the brooks ate 20 rodents in your possession, it should have been a little heavier. So, it is debatable that you are even speaking accurate facts.

I never even brought up reputation. You did. I never even used the word.

Why do you insist on not answering questions about your logic of not feeding a Florida king to make it appear " wild caught "?

" It did help though to show photos of the snake not fattened to provide some security to the buyer that it was wild caught. If you jumped to a conclusion that the snake was starved for photos, then that is odd. "

No, you yourself stated that you yourself thought it should be showing with less weight to prove or make a buyer feel like it was wild caught. That fact alone was disturbing, you were called on it, and you have yet to justify it with reasonable explanations.

My concern was the fact that you actually felt that it was a legit reason to show the snake in a skinny state to make some buyers feel like it was really a wild caught snake.

Wild caught or not, if the snake needed to be fed more, it needed to be fed more. Case closed.

You continue to concentrate on things other than the questions posed to you. My name is Billy. Your name is Dan Scolaro, right? You ship out 20 orders a week. Big deal. I know breeders that do more than that that would not have shown a snake that skinny to make it look " wild caught ".

Your attraction of skirting around the issue shows what you really do in your business, and nothing more needs to be said. If you respond again with a wanna-be clever mentality that fails to answer simple questions, then you really do show a resistance to just simply answering questions. That alone speaks volumes.

But then again, by that point, it doesn't really matter.

Buh-bye!!!

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Genesis 1:1

Are you somehow attempting to convey that you viewed and examined the snake before it was packed and shipped after 3 weeks of it eating? That is quite the stretch.

More importantly, why have you not posted your real name and valid interest in any of this after 4 requests so far?

Regardless, I do have some good news for you to make you feel better. It was indeed fed more. The buyer reported last night that it ate 2 mice last evening and reported it's a great snake and he sounded like he could not be happier with obtaining a true wild caught brooks.

So the snake is great, the customer is happy, and I am happy.

And despite you wrote that it does not matter, it does matter - I just made you all the wiser and happy for me, the customer, and the snake.

Dan

" It did help though to show photos of the snake not fattened to provide some security to the buyer that it was wild caught. If you jumped to a conclusion that the snake was starved for photos, then that is odd. "

No, you yourself stated that you yourself thought it should be showing with less weight to prove or make a buyer feel like it was wild caught. That fact alone was disturbing, you were called on it, and you have yet to justify it with reasonable explanations.

My concern was the fact that you actually felt that it was a legit reason to show the snake in a skinny state to make some buyers feel like it was really a wild caught snake.

Wild caught or not, if the snake needed to be fed more, it needed to be fed more. Case closed.

You continue to concentrate on things other than the questions posed to you. My name is Billy. Your name is Dan Scolaro, right? You ship out 20 orders a week. Big deal. I know breeders that do more than that that would not have shown a snake that skinny to make it look " wild caught ".

Your attraction of skirting around the issue shows what you really do in your business, and nothing more needs to be said. If you respond again with a wanna-be clever mentality that fails to answer simple questions, then you really do show a resistance to just simply answering questions. That alone speaks volumes.

But then again, by that point, it doesn't really matter.

Buh-bye!!!

Good to hear that the buyer was happy, and the snake is doing well! I did not really want to get involved in this thread, but just my opinion, from the picture that was on the ad, I would not have bought it. That's just me. It's not meant as a put down, but it does look like it needed some attention. Glad to hear you fed him 6 mice per week, before you shipped him, and alls well that ends well, right?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Jorge, thanks and would say the fellow that bought it is even happier that no one else jumped on it before him. Here are the photos of the snake from the ad below and I don't see anything wrong with it in the photos nor anything that would deter anyone from jumping on that fine snake. No shrunk head, no spine showing, no ribs showing. Fair weight and using its tongue - the complete opposite of the snake that Lu and Fraiser tried to knock. Who could ask for more? Came with a health guarantee also. This was when it was caught a month ago but it was fed well and put on much weight before shipping. I am not sure how this spured any comments from anyone except a big wow for such a beautiful fine specimen. But may add that if you do view an animal you are interested in, especially a wild caught specimen, to perhaps contact the seller and ask for current weights and the such as its rather easy to overlook fine specimens that may not photo well etc or put on fast weight in a short period of captivity. This specimen was actually in much better shape than your average wild caught. Most found in august are actually skinny from remaining hidden for a few months awaiting a cooler day to get out and eat. If you can get out in the right area on that first cooler day, you will see them.

Dan

Good to hear that the buyer was happy, and the snake is doing well! I did not really want to get involved in this thread, but just my opinion, from the picture that was on the ad, I would not have bought it. That's just me. It's not meant as a put down, but it does look like it needed some attention. Glad to hear you fed him 6 mice per week, before you shipped him, and alls well that ends well, right?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

I'd call that a Florida king rather than a Brook's.
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www.brooksi.com

Compared to the manufactured stuff in the hobby these days, it looks nothing like any of that stuff and far from it. But its indeed a true wild caught brooks from the same area most in the hobby started from.

Dan

Im sorry but could you post a email I sent you were I said I would like to buy this snake at any price??? No...of course not because I never sent one. You are trying to confuse the arguement by making it sound as if I had some interest in the animal. Just to be clear my only interest was the animals welfare. You already stated you kept the snake thin to add authenticity to it. You buddy (GerryG)in an effort to defend you made it even more clear your tactic of thinning snakes to show they are WC. Whats funny is Gerry thought I made that up when actually you said it several times. Maybe you need smarter friends. Its too bad your rep is such that animals have to go hungry for you to make a sale.

Lu